There's something seriously not right about this...A B31 that really wanted to be a Norton Inter..:grimacing: ...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

For some reason Ian, your pictures keep vanishing? Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Strange...I can still see it...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Unfortunately I can't see them only a black square with white letters.

Indeed - black square with white writing - not a motorcycle in sight!!

Yes I've noticed some of your pictures have gone missing in other fairly current threads too Ian.

This is what we're seeing??



I seem to remember with the old photobucket, if you posted a picture and then deleted it from your computer.....It's deleted here at the same time???

Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

How about this?...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Why ? Just bloody Why ?

Kawasaki forks and front wheel as well just to compound the crimes...:scream: ...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

What in the name of satans underpants was the builder thinking?!!

Most reliable "Norton" ever made.😂

email (option): Fuzzyempire@hotmail.com

I reckon it's the fault of an Indian seller on eBay...Sent a 1929 Norton flat / saddle intermediate tank instead of the DBD tank he thought he'd ordered.

It has the large Commando sized Norton stickers which eBay sellers always seem to do.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Norton-Model-18-Silver-Painted-Petrol-Tank-1930s-Reproduction-Free-Fuel-Cap/324185820975?hash=item4b7afb0f2f:g:3O8AAOSwCpRbJiL~

Frankenkwakker. Oh dear !
D

It is his bike.
He can do whatever he wants with it just so long as he does not masquerade it as being a genuine Notrun.
For all we know it could be made from everything that was left over in his shed
And even better it looks like he actually rides it which is some thing I can not say about most of the 99% + "perfect" restorations I see around the place.

email (option): bsansw1@tpg.com.au

You've got a point there, Trevor.

I also agree with Trevor, I did something very similar a couple of years back with all my surplus bits from my shed. A very enjoyable experience as you can do just what you want without some so called expert telling you its wromg. Most people still havent a clue what its built from. Must say though this bike lacks some nice lines. Maybe drop the headlamp a couple of inches and get shut of the valanced rear guard and maybe turn the Brooklands can up a few degrees and you would have a good cheep special.
Those Indian Norton so called model 18 saddle tanks are nothing like a early model 18s more like a 1929 16H from the look of the ebay pictures from the underneath shot.

Tim W

My eyes are constantly drawn to the rear mud guard .

"Notrun......."

Even as I'm a Norton lover you made me laugh Trevor! :joy: :joy:

I'd love to hear more joke names? I only know tons of BSA ones, which I won't mention here as your lives are so tough already..... :smiling_imp:

Cheers,

Sven

Personally I'd have liked the subject bike a lot more if he'd just built a decent BSA special with it. I also think it's ugly and a very obvious assemblage of non matching parts from different time periods that don't sit easily together to my eye....I think that the end result of building a 'special' is ideally a bike that looks like it might originally have been built that way, where everything fits and 'blends' together aesthetically....

Everyone can, and will, do what they want of course, that's their choice and not everyone has the same level of experience, facilities or budget, but it's OK to express an adverse opinion about the result if that's what you think, as much as it's OK to express a positive one if you like it...My latest rebuild has been criticised and the fact I built what I wanted doesn't elevate it beyond that...

We used to joke about the Royal Enfield slogan 'made like a gun'...always going BANG!...and there was 'All Tri and no Umph'...Broughs were always 'Rough Inferiors'...Ian:relaxed:

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

I wouldn't put down someone's efforts at building a bike, or just getting an old Brit bike usable and on the road, unless it was obviously unsafe or they'd butchered parts. Someone's had fun building it and I bet they're having fun riding it. If you were told this was built by a 17 year old lad with what he could find, you'd be impressed. I'm sure the Norton race oil and petrol tank are meant for a laugh and it's certainly got people talking about it :-D

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

Come on Tim, don't keep us in suspense, what did you build from the surplus bits, are you referring to your James/Francis Barnet creation or is it something even more exciting, we need to know. (For those who don't know, Tims James/Barnet is not what you might expect, it really IS exiting.

Here's my BSA-Indian-Ariel-Matchless special :smiley: It's my most ridden bike at the moment.(over 5000 miles so far)...Even if I do have to carry my tools and sandwich in my "man bag" Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

I always referred to my Royal Enfield as a Royal Oilfield - it seemed to have a total loss oil system with most of the loss occurring when it was parked - mind you it did eventually go bang as the poor quality cast iron flywheels disintegrated fortunately at low revs and speed but the seriousness of the failure became apparent when I took the primary chaincase cover off and the drive shaft fell on the floor.

As to the current creation I cannot say it appeals to me. The old adage of 'if it looks right it is right' seems a long way off in this instance.

Come on Tony you know its called a Francis Superior. Since this topic is about specials i will send a picture to Ron to see if he will kindly post it. I cannot seem to post pictures anymore on here.
Ron knows how to get the lines right when building a special as the above picture shows. These specials to me are a breath of fresh air and you can spend ages looking at how they have been put together.
Tim W

Keith, bring that knackered old wreck of an Oilfield down when you come. I'm sure I can make use of some of the parts:innocent: Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Here is Tim W's special, which he can tell you about himself. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

You rascal Ron - the parts are unique as you well know BUT I have a source for replacement steel flywheels although the engine has been rebuilt with a spare set of cast iron flywheels which I have lost confidence in. A Formula 1 racing team are going to repair the damage to the crankcases so all will be well and it will take to the road again.

Here's my 600cc Goldie café racer that I'm currently working on....I modelled it along the lines of the Rocket Gold Star that I owned in my early 20's and my last Goldie...It's progressed since this shot was taken and is now virtually finished...The picture underneath is my RGS that I used as a sort of template...I wanted to build a 'period' early 70's café racer...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Oops, sorry Tim, I had forgotten it is the only surviving example of that rare marque, built in 'Uddersfield I believe, and no other bikes sacrificed in the process.
Best Wishes
Tony

Very true Tony, the tank graphic's say it all

Now that's a beautiful bike Ian! Love it!
:+1: :+1: :+1:

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

While we're off-topic but talking about other BSAs...This has recently been posted on the 'Real Classic' board.

A 'Service Release' from one of the North American BSA regional concession holders regarding A Series twins...
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Can you really imagine having to do that to someones motorcycle. Drilling and maybe tapping holes in the flywheels from the bottom plate. That is of course when you have cut a hole in your bike stand. Then saying to the customer, i'm sure i got all the swarf out sir!:thinking_face:

It seems a very 'Heath Robinson' method to be suggested by the factory in a service bulletin...The need for such a procedure would only arise in two circumstances I can think of...
1)High compression pistons were being fitted and the increase in piston weight made rebalancing the crank necessary or 2)Some bikes were dispatched from the factory with incorrectly balanced cranks resulting in excessive vibration and this was a way of solving it and reducing warranty costs....

Personally, I wouldn't relish the prospect of my brand new bike being attacked with a half inch drill by some bloke carrying out an inaccurate balancing job that might introduce swarf into my engine....It sounds very much like a factory sanctioned bodge to get them out a problem whilst avoiding a costly engine rebuild.....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

I was talking to my engine balancer, who was telling me that BSA has an ally template with holes in, that was put over the fly wheel and drilled through the template for an estimated balance. By the time they'd got to the last fly wheel, the template holes were now enlarged so much the drill holes could be 1/2" out. No real balancing was done.

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

I have certainly found that the single cylinder flywheels (even in a completely standard spec. engine) always have to have some adjustment made when using current balancing methods and that often results in a noticeably smoother running engine...

I imagine BSA weren't alone amongst the manufacturers either, so I guess it's something worth considering if you ride your bike a lot...Of the bikes I've owned it was a Norton Atlas and a BSA Lightning that impressed themselves on me the most as having awful levels of vibration..

With the twins at least, Royal Enfield stood out for dynamically balancing the flywheels in Constellations, Interceptors etc. as standard...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

In fairness to BSA, this was a release put out not by them but by Hap Alzina who was their USA West Coast distributor.

He refers to the 'technique' having been developed by a dealer there and is pretty much saying that they should keep it to themselves.

They don't say if it was used after modification / rebore or whether they were looking for a cheap way of sorting out new engines, perhaps brought back by complaining customers and insisting that it be dealt with under warranty.

Most owners probably never found out..."What did you do with it ?"..."Oh, just tightened up a footrest bolt and adjusted the timing"....

Ron, the front mudguard on your BSA/indian, what bike is it from ?
I had one years ago on a Ariel NH, thought it was original (..?)

You are right Mike. It's from a pre war Ariel. It was my intention to theme it on a 1930's look Brit V twin with valanced guards for the "Indian" feel.:relaxed:

The only club I belong to is "Indian Riders UK" and although I have a military Scout, It's not my favourite bike to ride. My special gives me an easy to ride four speed, hand clutch Indian. (It's my only shiny bike!) :+1: Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

I'm surprised that although there have been so many negative opinions of the unfortunate BSA/Norton? bitsa no one has said anything about Tim W's bike. To me this epitomises everything a good special should be, well engineered and put together, beautifully finished and looking just
right. To quote the old engineering maxim, "If it looks right it probably is right".
Of course one would expect nothing less from the famous Francis Superior marque, it's a shame there are so few survivors.

Tony.

I've been waiting for Tim to tell us all about it. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

I saw the bike at Stanford Hall a few years back when it was on the Rough Inferior stand...Tim wasn't about and the Rough owners obviously realised I was a peasant and didn't make me welcome at all...Luckily I know my place:laughing: ....A lovely machine all round......Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Or it might have been at Stoneleigh now I come to think of it.....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

I did stick in on the BS stand at Stanford Hall but they soon moved me on as my special was attracting too much attention and no one was looking at their wares, so i got booted off.
Don't want to drone on about it as this is after all a WD forum but again this thread is about specials. It started when a saw a well know special from the 40s named Bonzo, Tich Allen used to rave about it. This was a pre war Francis Barnett built like a bridge frame which is made from loose tube sections bolted together. It had a 20s James sports twin fitted with a 20s 3 speed BSA gearbox.
I had a 1926 James sports twin engine under the bench at home and knew of a late 20s Francis Barnett frame and forks. I brought these frame parts and widened the frame, beefed the headstock up and lengthened the rear frame tubes. Sturmey gearbox and clutch came from my stock as did the Tiger Cub wheels. Picture shows the engine and how it hangs into the Francis Barnett frame with the plates i made. I managed to make a small oil tank to fit above the gearbox. Toolboxes came from eBay the first one was £12 the second one came 6 months later from ebay but that one cost £100. Silencers are cast alloy cast from a pattern that my mate made from a old silencer i had.
I enjoyed this build as i could do what i wanted and fit what i wanted, a breath of fresh air from sticking to the rule book that you have to do with most restorations. I even added Brookland's type braces to the girder fork sides a i like the look of braced forks in some of the Brooklands pictures.
You work the lines out as you go on, getting the lines right makes the bike as Ron's done with his special
The name Francis Superior came about when i fitted to 2 large toolboxes and the silencers. But really i supose it's a early AMC.
Tony has prompted me it writing this, but he is a far better special builder the me!

That bracing with the holes is an interesting touch Tim. I never noticed it in your original picture. Here's mine in it's early stages where I had to hang it together for my tube guys to make the exhaust.

I'm only very slightly off topic here as the bike is mostly WW2 military :innocent: Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

I've just noticed that the BSA/Norton this post was about is for sale on ebay described as a Norton Inter copy...! Now that is joke 😂 it also says it's not registered.

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

Nice lines Ron, just as the factory would have done it.:wink:

Horror, the British are famous for their sense of humor. That must be it.

Ron, you didn't cut the frame anywhere, did you ? So it could always be rebuild.
I never use a saw or a drill or anything.

No Michel! No cutting of the frame/forks. I had to remake the engine plates and the crankcase lugs were milled down to match the distance between the engine plates and the original dynamo casting on the crankcase was removed. I used a pre-war BSA (Sloper?) steering stem and the M20 Handlebar mounts were machined off to take Triumph mounts and a Norton Big 4 1" handlebar.

I also removed the M20 battery/oil tank lugs. But the engine fitted as though it was meant to be there, even the bend in the lower right frame rail looks like it was meant to clear the scavenge pick-up. :ok_hand: Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Ha Ha...Good call, Mr. H. !

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bsa-B31-1955-1948-Norton-international-copy-cafe-racer-rides-runs/133448413857?hash=item1f122532a1:g:4mUAAOSwa4xe9K8-[/utl]

It gets even better...It's not registered and unless he's a trader with a trade plate then he's been riding it illegally. With the Japanese forks and wheels, I'm not sure it's eligible for an age-related number or historic registration...maybe a 1960s suffix-number and no free tax at best or a 'Q' at worst ?

By the way, I think that Tim's Francis Barnet Bastard is wonderful. A fascinating period sepcial that makes a better machine than either of the donor bikes, which is what it ought to be about.

Oh, i also found a M20 frame where sombody mounted the worong engine :)

https://ibb.co/2YsQcbx

email (option): olof-s@web.de

Is that a single cam Jawa, ESO or similar?....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Yes Ian, it's an early 2 Valve Jawa Speedway engine. I Former Times i thaught IT would bei a "must have" :thinking_face:

email (option): olof-s@web.de

I helped a friend fit a twin cam Jawa top end to his M33...Most of the work was changing to chain driven OHC from pushrod operation but I also made a distributor for it...The bike was used for sprinting and track days but was run more on the road..The 'Mk2' version of the engine which I wasn't involved in had electronic ignition and was boosted to 650cc using a Ducati piston..Bore and stroke was 85 x 88 as a 500, 94 x 90 as a 600 ultimately 94 x 94 as a 650...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Good Work Ian,
what was the reason Not mount the complete Jawa engine ? Because of the loss lubrication ?

email (option): olof-s@web.de

Just to retain more BSA parts and because after making a few measurements it looked like it could be made to work!...In the end it made for a more interesting bike...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com