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Re: BSA M.21 / M.20 AA combinations.

Ron, just a thought, but the 110 was an 'MT' before the 1130 came along. Is 'Motorcycle Tail' too obvious an answer ?

Re: BSA M.21 / M.20 AA combinations.

Rob Miller
Hi Keith

Possibly Swallow or SS Cars, there is a bit in "Jaguar the history of a great British car" by Andrew Whyte which gives the claimed company war time production figues which includes

335 Special RAF camera carrying sidecars
3,751 WD Sidecars
1,295 Box Sidecars
3,927 Passenger Sidecars

With the passenger sidecars BSA M20s appeared to have the Swallow model 8 fitted on a Swallow chassis, Norton 16Hs had a Norton chassis but did they use the Norton passenger body or the Swallow? 3,927 seems to be too many just for the BSAs?

And I have always been intrigued by an RAF camera carrying sidecar?

Rob
Thanks Rob for that information greatly appreciated including the e.mail.

I do believe that Norton used both box body sidecars and passenger body sidecars on some of the 16Hs all of which used the Norton Model 8 sidecar chassis and by a stroke of good fortune I actually have a Norton Model 8 sidecar chassis, with sidecar / bike fittings, front and rear springs and tie bars with wheel and original mudguard and sidecar light.

As for camera carrying sidecars I can only assume these machines delivered and collected the cameras from photo reconnaissance aircraft as they were I believe quite bulky pieces of equipment and I think some recon aircraft may have been fitted with more than one camera.

Re: BSA M.21 / M.20 AA combinations.

Rob Miller
I took some pictures of an AA sidecar in Moretonhamptead motor Museum a few years ago, the bike I seem to remember was ex WD but the sidecar looked original and I think was steel over a wood frame.

And I'm sure Rik turned up a document that mentioned the WD version being 9 inchs longer than the standard AA box?

Rob







Brilliant Rob thanks for posting the photographs and for identifying the location of what seems without doubt an original AA sidecar body and upon which the WD version was based. I have also been told the WD version was 9" longer but on the basis that everything else was the same making a replica WD version should not pose too many problems I would hope.

Thanks once again - greatly appreciated.

Re: BSA M.21 / M.20 AA combinations.

Bloody Hell, of course Rik. MT210-MT211-MT110 All "Motorcycle Tail lamps" :flushed: Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: BSA M.21 / M.20 AA combinations.

My wallet was 'M T' after purchasing one of those lamps.😂

email (option): Fuzzyempire@hotmail.com

Re: BSA M.21 / M.20 AA combinations.

Hamish:smiley: What bike have you fitted it to? Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: BSA M.21 / M.20 AA combinations.

Hi Ron. I have a fairly rough early post war Ariel Red Hunter. Its work in progress but I was lucky enough to find the correct number plate bracket with most of a MT1130a lamp still in place.

email (option): Fuzzyempire@hotmail.com

Re: BSA M.21 / M.20 AA combinations.

Post war Red Hunter? I always thought they were only used on BSA and Ariel for the 39-40 period. I'll have to look into it.

Cheers Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: BSA M.21 / M.20 AA combinations.

As far as I've found out, They were only fitted to Ariel's in 1939......You might as well give it to me Hamish. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: BSA M.21 / M.20 AA combinations.

You're right, Ron. It would devalue a post-war bike, being incorrect and all that, just by being there ! :slightly_smiling_face:

Re: BSA M.21 / M.20 AA combinations.

All yours Ron. Come and pick it up. I live in New Zealand.🙂 I'm basing my use of MT1130a on two pictures in Roy Bacons "Ariel,The postwar models" book.

email (option): Fuzzyempire@hotmail.com

Re: BSA M.21 / M.20 AA combinations.

I know a bloke in NZ......I'll send him round:upside_down_face: :upside_down_face:

God know's about those lamps? An awful lot of effort to make a strange lamp and its special number plate for one year only, for just two makes.
A friend of mine (Dino) has collected all original motorcycle related Lucas catalogues tells me that the MT1130 doesn't exist, because they're not listed in any catalogue. I had trouble getting him to accept it! I guess they must have been a special order by BSA and Ariel? Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: BSA M.21 / M.20 AA combinations.

I used one on my T120R 'TT' Special...I just like the shape of them....I often use parts I like, as opposed to what should be there, if I think it suits the style of the bike better...

Interesting thread about the AA outfits (as well as rear lights)..A friend of mine had an 1939 AA Triumph Speed Twin ..Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: BSA M.21 / M.20 AA combinations.

I've see a pre-war Triumph 6S engine stamped AA (600cc SV sidecar tug) which would have been fitted in the same frame as the Speedtwin and Tiger 100. It was sold to John A (W&P) by mistake for his 5SW frame.....Of course it was too big. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: BSA M.21 / M.20 AA combinations.

The Big4s with box bodies were issued to the Airborne Divisional Provost Company which landed at Arnhem, I don't know if they went, its possible that they had already been replaced with Jeeps by September 1944 or perhaps they just weren't a priority in glider allocation?

Thanks to Rob van Meel for this info.

Rob

abpro

abpro1

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Re: BSA M.21 / M.20 AA combinations.

Maybe they were 16H Rob? Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: BSA M.21 / M.20 AA combinations.

All the evidence suggests that the early to mid war establishment for a provost company included SWD Big 4s for carrying signage and lamps.

I've seen no evidence that the War Office (army) took any 16H sidecars at all, whether passenger or box bodied. It is clear that the Admiralty had some box bodies and I daresay the Air Force got hold of some too.

Re: BSA M.21 / M.20 AA combinations.

I think I saw a photograph on here sometime ago of a SWD Big 4 combination inside a glider (a Horsa I presume).

Re: BSA M.21 / M.20 AA combinations.

Indeed Keith. Ron

1-Motorcycle-Combo-on-Horsa
Big-4-in-training-with-Airbornes-04-a

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: BSA M.21 / M.20 AA combinations.

This is one of the Box-bodied Big 4s that arrived in Australia :-

NORTON-COMB-C

...and an AWM image showing what looks to be a Big 4 with RAAF...It certainly has the passenger grab handle but front mudguard is 16H.

AWM-Box-sidecar

Re: BSA M.21 / M.20 AA combinations.

Sorry, what means AA ?? Thanks in advance! Regards

email (option): m606paz@yahoo.com.ar

Re: BSA M.21 / M.20 AA combinations.

Automobile Association....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: BSA M.21 / M.20 AA combinations.

Rik
This is one of the Box-bodied Big 4s that arrived in Australia :-



...and an AWM image showing what looks to be a Big 4 with RAAF...It certainly has the passenger grab handle but front mudguard is 16H.

I was in correspondence with an Australian SWD Big 4 owner from the state of Victoria in the mid 1970s who besides the bike and sidecar had a trailer for the machine believed to have been used with the RAAF. I have photographic slides of it somewhere.

Re: BSA M.21 / M.20 AA combinations.

Ian Wright
Automobile Association....Ian
Thank you Ian!

email (option): m606paz@yahoo.com.ar

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