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BSA War department census number

I have a request - a friend has a BSA - the frame number is KM204917 and the engine is KM21631. Unfortunately, the motorcycle has been in the Czech Republic since the war, but we do not know its wartime past - that is, not even the number or date of manufacture. Can anyone help?

email (option): chalupnym@centrum.cz

Re: BSA War department census number

Hi
Have a look in the technical section for exact date, it is rare being a KM!!

Re: BSA War department census number

Frame KM20 4917 was a KM21 deLuxe supplied on 15/8/1939 to J Moos, The Hague. 631 was not the original engine.

https://www.conam.info/historie/importeurs-motorfietsen/importeurs-motorfietsen-beschrijvingen/2561-bsa-gb-john-moos-den-haagamsterdam

It would probably have been a civilian machine that was confiscated / stolen by the Germans.

Engine no. KM21 631 was also despatched to The Netherlands, but was fitted to a machine forming part of a Government contract...It was sent to the 'Staatsbedrijf Der Artillerie, Holland' (Also The Hague) on 28/3/1939.

In all probability, the parts were mixed by a German maintenance unit.

I'm sure the Dutch M21 enthusiasts on here would like to see photos :relaxed:

Re: BSA War department census number

Thanks for the information - I will pass it on to the owner and ask for photos - by the way, if anyone was in a "Dutch camp" in Normandy in Longues sur mer in June 2019 - then it is the BSA in the Czechoslovak camp. Thank you once again

email (option): chalupnym@centrum.cz

Re: BSA War department census number

Hi,

Hereby some more information about the frame and engine of the BSA M21.

John Moos was the Dutch importer of BSA cars and motorcycles in the 1920's and 1930's. He had 2 shops, 1 in The Hague and 1 in Amsterdam. He sold BSA cars and motorcycles to the Dutch civilian market and had no role in the purchase of the Dutch Army BSA M21's.
I have attached a photo below of John Moos from July 1926.

The engine with number KM21 631 was fitted to a BSA M21 which was part of the first large contract delivered to the Dutch Army. The contract consisted of 320 BSA M21's and these were delivered from January till March 1939. The contract was signed on the 31st of January 1939 (I have a copy of the original contract). These M21's were fitted with handgear change, panel tank, GEFRAG pillion seat and valanced front and rear mudguard. The 320 M21's were despatched to the following units of the Dutch Army:
1st Regiment Cyclists: 149
2nd Regiment Husars Motorcyclists: 87
2nd Regiment Husars: 33
3rd Regiment Husars: 33
Reserve Light Brigade: 18

Below a few photo's of some M21's which were part of this contract.

Rik is right to suggest that this particular BSA was confiscated by the Germans and the parts were mixed, most of the Dutch Army BSA M21's ended up in German service after the occupation of the Netherlands.

I am definitely interested to see some photo's of this BSA M21.

Regards,
Bastiaan

BSA-1926-07-05-john-moos

26-maart-1940-2

BSA-M21-NIOD-3

N-53087-Brabers

email (option): wdmotorcycles@gmail.com

Re: BSA War department census number

Very nice picture of John Moos, Sebastiaan.
Looks like a fast bike, an OHV with a "provincieplaat" at front.
Any idea what model it was ?

Re: BSA War department census number

I have some photos on my PC but I don't know how to insert them

email (option): chalupnym@centrum.cz

Re: BSA War department census number

Hi Michal,
Just send them to my emailaddress and I will post them for you.

Regards,
Bastiaan

email (option): wdmotorcycles@gmail.com

Re: BSA War departmHere the photo's. ent census number

Hereby the photo's.

60278530-2129490990453886-5986959693640105984-o

96294938-2844109592325352-2138830195136659456-o

93941898-2795928697143442-5742926614023372800-o

The M20 is restored in a mid/late war trim.

email (option): wdmotorcycles@gmail.com

Re: BSA War departmHere the photo's. ent census number

Is it an M20 now or still an M21 ?....and the million dollar question...What happened to all the old Dutch contract parts that were taken off ? :thinking_face:

Re: BSA War departmHere the photo's. ent census number

Is that Tomas Higgins with the Tilly? Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: BSA War departmHere the photo's. ent census number

Rik
Is it an M20 now or still an M21 ?....and the million dollar question...What happened to all the old Dutch contract parts that were taken off ? :thinking_face:
Rik,
That is indeed the question and that's what I have asked the owner this afternoon:smile:

Regards,
Bastiaan

email (option): wdmotorcycles@gmail.com

Re: BSA War departmHere the photo's. ent census number

Ons kent ons, eh, Bastiaan ? :grinning: Daarom heb ik het gevraagd !

Re: BSA War departmHere the photo's. ent census number

Ron Pier
Is that Tomas Higgins with the Tilly? Ron
It's Tomáš's Tilly, but the soldier standing next to him is not Tomáš

email (option): chalupnym@centrum.cz

Re: BSA War departmHere the photo's. ent census number

I helped Tomas with parts for his Tilly....and other vehicles. (even went to Manchester to collect a donor Austin car) I rode to the camp site at Longues last year with friends to hopefully meet up with Tomas, but the language barrier made it difficult for him to know who I was:laughing: Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: BSA War departmHere the photo's. ent census number

Ron Pier
I helped Tomas with parts for his Tilly....and other vehicles. (even went to Manchester to collect a donor Austin car) I rode to the camp site at Longues last year with friends to hopefully meet up with Tomas, but the language barrier made it difficult for him to know who I was:laughing: Ron
Next year in Normandy we will have an interpreter with us or we will learn English. :laughing: Maybe next year will work out ... Or come to Pilsen for the liberation celebrations in May. Glad to see you https://www.facebook.com/tomas.higgins.18?epa=SEARCH_BOX

email (option): chalupnym@centrum.cz

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