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M20 fuel pipe

Am I correct in thinking this is 1/4"?
(Looking to make my own)
cheers
Scott

Re: M20 fuel pipe

1/4" pipe and depending if you have the original type taps= 2x 1/8 BSP fittings at the top and 1 x 1/4 BSP at the bottom. If you have the more commonly used taps nowadays = all 3 are 1/4 BSP. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: M20 fuel pipe

Hi Scott

I am going at this myself & managed to obtain the t piece fittings required - I just need to source the pipe now - I have ends too

I want to practice the “silver solder” method required before hand - can anyone recommend a suitable torch or burner for such & a recommendation on best flux to use

Jo’b

email (option): jonnyob1@googlemail.com

Re: M20 fuel pipe

For copper tube:-
https://www.vintagecarparts.co.uk/search?query=copper+pipe

Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: M20 fuel pipe

JB, I have ordered some silver rod coated in flux, didn’t fancy hosing out £70 odd for a pot of flux to be used once!

Re: M20 fuel pipe

John...You'll have no trouble finding a suitable silver solder flux on e bay....Note the descriptions as some state 'for use with copper fittings' etc....Personally I like a separate flux...

I use oxy/acetylene for silver solder but only because a friend lets me use his (and he supplies the solder and flux as an 'old boys network' favour)...I'm pretty sure you can get the temperature required from a propane torch though...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: M20 fuel pipe

['I'm pretty sure you can get the temperature required from a propane torch though']...

Sorry, I should have qualified that...You can get a low melting point silver solder that melts at 630-660 degrees, well within the propane/air range...Normal melting point for silver solder is 1640-1760 ...Propane in air burns at about 1980 degrees...

Try CUPAlloys 01623 707955 for the low melting point silver solder but check applications......Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: M20 fuel pipe

Thanks all

Nothing like a global pandemic to learn new skills
😬
Br
Job

email (option): jonnyob1@googlemail.com

Re: M20 fuel pipe

We've had the discussion before and as I recall, quite a lot of us use soft solder...I've never dismantled original fittings using anything other than a gentle flame from a butane torch.

Soft Copper pipe is very easy to form. Scrupulous cleanliness, especially of used fittings is essential.

Re: M20 fuel pipe

I guess this is a question that needs to be resolved...Were the original fittings soft soldered or silver soldered?...I must admit I have always thought them to be silver soldered..

A butane flame is 1430C..Perhaps a bit low to melt 'standard' silver solder...Also, did all manufactures employ the same methods..? Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: M20 fuel pipe

I don't know for sure, Ian? Someone with some experience should have a go at an NOS fitting.

I've definitely taken dull-chromed Norton oil pipes apart and certainly not had to get them glowing red or anything but I don't have the experience to say whether they were soft solder or LMP silver...main worry is avoid the hot nipple dropping in my slippers !

Re: M20 fuel pipe

I recently cured a weep from the joint between pipe & nipple with soft solder. But that was just plugging a hole, not an issue of strength.

Re: M20 fuel pipe

Soft solder should be strong enough for a fuel line, unless you want to get the pipe plated with zinc, then you most probably have to silver solder. after all I use soft solder on my cables including clutch, usually the cable breaks before the nipple pulls off if done properly. Soft solder is used in house plumbing on mains pressure. Tin the end of pipe with smear of solder before hand, only vibration over time might cause it to fail.

email (option): tknalder@iinet.net.au

Re: M20 fuel pipe

Had to repair mine last year as the solder had given way and petrol was dripping over the gearbox and
on to the exhaust,
Found out it was soft solder under the cad plate, so cleaned everything up and repaired it with plumbers flux and solder used a small butane pen torch that I use for wiring repairs, Still no leaks,
Regards Tom.


,

email (option): rustytomm20@hotmail.com

Re: M20 fuel pipe

I meant timing cover’ It’s been a long day at work in the hot sun 🌞
Tom,

email (option): rustytomm20@hotmail.com

Re: M20 fuel pipe

I made my own petrol pipe for my G3L nearly 20 years ago using the same soft solder and flux I use for plumbing, no leaks or issues since then.
Mike

email (option): m.gurr@yahoo.com

Re: M20 fuel pipe

Yep I've done several that way. Never used silver solder, although I've come across it whilst trying to dismantle fuel lines for the fittings.

Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: M20 fuel pipe

['Never used silver solder, although I've come across it whilst trying to dismantle fuel lines for the fittings...']

Same here on a number of occasions... As I'm nearly always working with BSA parts I'd have to conclude that BSA used silver solder at some point in the past, or at least something other than soft soldering..
I think the rocker feed pipes on OHV models are brazed. It certainly looks like that material and is a process that is carried out at below the melting point of copper and brass...(see chart below)..Perhaps this, or silver solder, was used in other applications as well...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: M20 fuel pipe

Afew years ago I had the pleasure of meeting a chap called Gordon Cobbold, he was in his nineties and had been a works supported rider for Sunbeam. He was still driving and visiting Europe in his Ford Escort where he was involved in the organisation of motorcycle racing.
We went to the Brooklands Reunion in '97 and when we looked round the museum I noticed several of the original silver trophies on show bore his name. I asked him what it was like to ride there and he replied that the track was so rough and bumpy that all fuel and oil pipes had to be silver soldered, soft solder would not stand the vibration from the engine and track surface, and the same applied in the Island which of course was also a very rough surface.
I've run lots of bikes with soft soldered pipes and never had any trouble 'tho I've come across fractured and loose copper pipes in boxes of autojumble stuff.
I guess the moral of this is if you are racing, silver solder, if not soft solder is OK.

Tony

Re: M20 fuel pipe

I've had soft solder joints fail in the past but I think that's probably more down to poor technique and the use of incorrect materials..There is a wide range of both solders and fluxes and I found it was worth the time to identify what was the best choice in that regard.....

It's also important that there is sufficient clearance between the parts that are being soldered to enable the capilliary action that is necessary to produces a fully soldered joint. The depth in the 'socket' of the joint has to be sufficient as well....
What was used originally by what manufacturer and for which applications will probably never be clearly defined...

I've recently been experimenting with some tooling and different soldering techniques to produce a more consistent result when preparing and soldering control cables, another soldering job fraught with potential problems if not carried out correctly...I'm gradually putting a piece together for the 'Technical Section' on that topic...
Here's a more consistently formed cable end prior to soldering, formed using one of the tools rather that a hammer, miscellaneous punch etc....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: M20 fuel pipe

Hi Ian,
Now i do like that crimping on the wire end, very neat and no doubt very effective. I look forward to the piece in the tech section to get the explanation on just how that was done.
Darren

Re: M20 fuel pipe

I wish people would use the correct terminology for such occasions......It's called a "Cats Arse":innocent: Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: M20 fuel pipe

Hi

Does anyone know where you can buy 1/4" brass T pieces suitable for soldering? I can find the threaded type but not the type suitable for soldering.

I can find 5/16" upwards but not 1/4". I need to make a new fuel pipe for my 16H. Thanks for any pointers.

Jon

Re: M20 fuel pipe

Made this bird nesting tool, just a couple of bits of suitable angle iron clamped together in drill vice then drill the small holes slightly smaller than your cable diameter followed by a 5/16"th drill drilled about 1/4" depth. To make the punches I used 5/16"th stainless rod again centre drill for the size of cable as per clamps followed by 5/16"th drill to form the concave end ( I also ran a knurling tool on hammer end as it makes it easier to hold punches).Just clamp cable in angle brackets in vice just proud of the top then insert punch over cable and whack with a hammer....job done..




Re: M20 fuel pipe

Sorry Ron I meant I made this Cats Arse tool:laughing:

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