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Early Saddle Springs - long type - early saddle spring studs

Hi all

I am looking to get some early long type saddle springs & associated saddle spring studs ( includes under seat horn mounting) made up as I have a few projects which need these

Are there any of you who are interested or want such for your own bikes or projects

The more that are ordered the cheaper they become

I have details of a recommended company who can manufacture springs to original specifications

Studs will come from another source who have made these before for me

Contact me on my personal mail if this is of interest

Best regards

Jo’b

email (option): jonnyob1@googlemail.com

Re: Early Saddle Springs - long type - early saddle spring studs

Hi Nathan

Yes the 9/10 coil springs

I saw that Josef / Ann have these but available with saddles

I haven’t approached him about separate purchase

I do like the idea of locally produced springs however

If there is no interest - I will go for it either way

Br

John

email (option): jonnyob1@googlemail.com

Re: Early Saddle Springs - long type - early saddle spring studs

I hope you are successful John...I'm not keen on 'negative waves' but I found a distinct lack of enthusiasm regarding the purchase of new springs...Unless the springs are broken or unobtainable most seem happy with the old springs, despite the fact their performance deteriorates markedly with age and use, particularly valve springs and fork springs...'If it goes up and down it must be OK' seems to be the mantra...!!

That thinking applies to anti drain valve springs, fork springs and valve springs...The last two I attempted to sell with a marked lack of success despite the fact they weren't designed to last indefinitley...I suspect saddle springs may be the same...Keep your fingers crossed there's a real shortage of this item...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: Early Saddle Springs - long type - early saddle spring studs

I'm in, but only need one pair for my 1940 build. PM me if you go ahead -no rush; I'm only just getting the frame on its wheels.

email (option): cmmacd@hotmail.co.uk

Re: Early Saddle Springs - long type - early saddle spring studs

Thanks to all who have contacted me so far either here on forum or off line

I will give this until late next week to finalise & approach the spring maker again

So far so good

And Ian yes - I agree with you - since I changed the springs a few years back on my 44 bike - it became a pleasure to ride - the old springs were so bouncy & tired after the years - fitting the new springs transformed it for me - job in line is now to replace the front fork spring which can again only help the front end

Br
Job

email (option): jonnyob1@googlemail.com

Re: Early Saddle Springs - long type - early saddle spring studs

Hi

I am now awaiting contact from the spring & stud makers on cost & timing of availability

It seems both are exceptionally busy with work & orders

As soon as I have an update, I will contact those who have responded

Br & stay safe all of you

Jo’b

email (option): jonnyob1@googlemail.com

Re: Early Saddle Springs - long type - early saddle spring studs

Nathan Saunders
I'd be down for a set John, exact copies in the original materials.
John, Nathan wants exact copies in original materials! Best you get your spring maker to find some low-background steel..😂😂

Re: Early Saddle Springs - long type - early saddle spring studs

A visit to Scapa Flow and the High Seas Fleet?...Ian:laughing:

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: Early Saddle Springs - long type - early saddle spring studs

Maybe melt down a chunk from the Titanic?

Re: Early Saddle Springs - long type - early saddle spring studs

Ian Wright
A visit to Scapa Flow and the High Seas Fleet?...Ian:laughing:
Surely you would need the material from the Royal Oak - certainly not the High Seas Fleet as it would probably be Krupp Steel and not original Sheffield Steel which is what is required - well at least by Nathan. Personally I will settle for some good modern steel being used and avoid the premium cost of obtaining original material.

Re: Early Saddle Springs - long type - early saddle spring studs

I'm sure Nathan actually meant to a comparable specification....While I was at Scapa flow I saw some divers getting arrested for removing parts from the High Seas Fleet...It transpired their diving equipment was seized, their van and they got fined...

Well worth a trip to Scapa Flow...The Italian Chapel, wartime fortifications and the ship they sank in shallow water to avoid a repeat of the Royal Oak were all worth a look as well as the general area...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: Early Saddle Springs - long type - early saddle spring studs

['A lot of reproduction M20 fasteners are being made in stainless..]'...

All the fasteners and many fittings on my M20 are stainless steel...In a blasted finish and with some use it passes reasonably well for cadmium plating...For a heavily used bikes it has the added advantage of durability...No more trips to the plater or rusty fasteners...

No good for the purist of course but I do like serviceability...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: Early Saddle Springs - long type - early saddle spring studs

['No problem with serviceability if maintained and stored well...']

That may be true of a 'hanger queen', lightly used aircraft restoration...Meanwhile, back in the world we inhabit many vehicles get used and used hard and they will deteriorate over time however good the maintenance carried out....

It's true to say every new vehicle ever made deteriorated when put to use and most have already gone to the happy scrapyard in the sky....You can't stop the effects of oxidisation however hard you try....Stainless does reduce the damage though...However, I'm not advocating the use of stainless, that's a discussion that's already happened..It's just the way I do it and I know many wouldn't dream of it..

This picture was taken a while back and shows what I've tended to do with my M20 over the last 40 years and over very high mileages...I don't think of these things as some sort of 'sacred cow'...They are just bikes that I enjoy building, using and wearing out....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: Early Saddle Springs - long type - early saddle spring studs

The tidal road to Lopwell? Saltwater, mud and sand. Didn't I see a photo of it stood up on its own in mud on that road?
Cheers Pat

Re: Early Saddle Springs - long type - early saddle spring studs

That's the one Pat...I did sink on one occasion and the stand wasn't required..My main worry was getting it out before the tide came in!....I like to go down there periodically and test the depth of mud, the layout of the hidden stones and the location of the broken branches...Frankly, the M20 is hard work through that much mud...The 720cc B33 on the other hand flew through there!!...
Lex is a man after my own heart in this respect...He has given his Big 4 outfit some stiff challenges off road and not always with total success!!....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: Early Saddle Springs - long type - early saddle spring studs

['Salt water spray...that's where your oxidisation comes from ...']

I know that...I get the same thing every time I ride on the beach as well..or on winter roads...

It doesn't really matter how rare the bike is...Once properly rebuilt it can be used and used...As long as it's rebuilt again before it deteriorates too badly...That process could take years, or even decades, depending on the type and frequency of use...
Such a shame that the vast majority of old bikes are rebuilt and then hidden away for fear of some wear and deterioration or the idea they are too rare to use....

Whilst on the subject of rarity, many extremely rare race bikes are campaigned in anger.... It's also true of many very rare planes with which you seem so enamoured...

Crash one of those and there's probably going to be nothing much left to work with....It's all about the mind set and personally, I don't get too 'precious' about it...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: Early Saddle Springs - long type - early saddle spring studs

Hi Nathan,I made my own saddle spring studs from bolts and nuts(welded) as shown, bit rough but they do the job.
You don`t have to spend a small fortune on restorations, and it becomes self satisfying !! SADDLE-BOLTS

email (option): jamfam@dragnet.com.au

Re: Early Saddle Springs - long type - early saddle spring studs

Nathan, I hate to shatter your dreams but you do not have a rare M20 just because it has a K as a prefix, it's still an M20. As for 30k on a rebuild so what you can boast on how much money you have got and it will not impress many people. It dose not buy you experience and by the sounds of it you have none, just a sanctimonious attitude.
Did you ever manage to remove the fittings from your nos petrol pipe to get it cad plated?
Keep on reading the books.

Re: Early Saddle Springs - long type - early saddle spring studs

Well I'm not about to judge anyone on the way they want to do something. I'll offer advise if it's ask for or just shut up if it's not wanted or appreciated.

Without any form of criticism, my own personal thoughts are, that I would like a KM20 to restore, and use as many NOS parts as needed and as possible to acquire for it's rebuild. To my mind I would be restoring a bike that at least has some soul and mystique about its war time use. To build one as a bitsa from NOS parts that are not all of the correct period is like building a replica to me. (I have built a replica of a rare model that none exist)

Over in another World that interests me, there have been some brand new crated Universal Carriers that were sold off after the war. Some guys have been in raptures about these. How can these be classed as WW2 vehicles? They never saw the light of day till long after it was all over!

Ron


email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: Early Saddle Springs - long type - early saddle spring studs

['If I'm going to spend £30K restoring a rare motorcycle, I'm going to keep it low mileage and wear because unlike other motorcycle and aircraft owners, I can't afford to do it twice, three, four times over...']

However much you spend you'll never spend that again rebuilding it...and as I said it could be years or even decades before you come to that...I would have thought by then you might have some more resources to hand to carry out the work...

Although you seem fixed on the idea that everyone else can afford something you can't you are intending to spend at least five times more than most people do rebuilding their WD bike so your not entirely skint it would seem...

Personally, and I'm sure in common with many others, I have chosen not to own, and not to do, as much as many other people to fund my hobby and have just spent continuously over a very long period of time with bikes as my primary interest...

Certainly what has driven me on is what I see as the 'pay off' for all the effort, time and money that I have put into my many rebuilds over the years...
That is, the pleasure of using the finished bike and the memories that have come from the places I've visited, the people I've met, the sunny days and the dark winter nights running around, touring and commuting etc..... A 'motorcyclists' life in the true sense of it...

Sadly that's more or less gone...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: Early Saddle Springs - long type - early saddle spring studs

Ian Wright
['If I'm going to spend £30K restoring a rare motorcycle, I'm going to keep it low mileage and wear because unlike other motorcycle and aircraft owners, I can't afford to do it twice, three, four times over...']

However much you spend you'll never spend that again rebuilding it...and as I said it could be years or even decades before you come to that...I would have thought by then you might have some more resources to hand to carry out the work...

Although you seem fixed on the idea that everyone else can afford something you can't you are intending to spend at least five times more than most people do rebuilding their WD bike so your not entirely skint it would seem...

Personally, and I'm sure in common with many others, I have chosen not to own, and not to do, as much as many other people to fund my hobby and have just spent continuously over a very long period of time with bikes as my primary interest...

Certainly what has driven me on is what I see as the 'pay off' for all the effort, time and money that I have put into my many rebuilds over the years...
That is, the pleasure of using the finished bike and the memories that have come from the places I've visited, the people I've met, the sunny days and the dark winter nights running around, touring and commuting etc..... A 'motorcyclists' life in the true sense of it...

Sadly that's more or less gone...Ian
You are not alone Ian as what I also see as the pay off is actually using the machine I spent hours restoring. Many fond memories of using my SWD Big 4 on 80 mile cross country Arbuthnot Trials 2 up and sometimes 3 up. Hours spent rebuilding the Royal Enfield prototype EXKX SWD outfit and running that for many years - it had over 250,000 miles on the clock when the engine failed and now sits in the garage awaiting an engine rebuild.

One thing is for sure I could not afford £30K to restore a motorcycle - rare or not.

Re: Early Saddle Springs - long type - early saddle spring studs

For spirit I would follow Tom Steele's Norton project, I think his approach is amazing and his attitude will take him far. I don't know much about Norton unfortunately or I'd help out on parts. But I do know plenty about bsa. I don't consider the KM20 a rare model though I do like them. Ih there are more WM20 than Km20, but I've seen plenty of KM20s to represent the model. I'd love to see a 30K KM20. Not my type of project but I do appreciate all the research and facts so I do wish you the best. My belief, and it is just my belief, is that the concept of building a KM20 from parts is flawed from the outset. The final product will only ever be a representation of the original. It's easy to throw unlimited sums of money and build anything from a collection of parts, but the pedigree will never be the same as a poor condition original. Kind of like a historic manx norton and an exceptional modern rebuild, Francis beart didnt tune the rebuild no matter how quick it is.

email (option): Glenn.mullan@postmaster.co.uk

Re: Early Saddle Springs - long type - early saddle spring studs

Sorry if it comes across that I'm judging you, it was not my objective. I am, and probably a lot of people are, learning from your research. I follow with genuine interest and just because your approach to this project is not the same as mine does not mean that the end result won't be exceptional, assuming you have the skill set, which I'm assuming you must have if you restored a Matador. I've done some body work on lorry restorations for people previously and a lot of mechanical work and if you can handle the heavy machinery a bike will be a breeze. I'll not spam this thread up any longer, apologies John, but will be interested to read about how you overcome the challenges of achieving original specification paint. All the best, Glenn.

email (option): Glenn.mullan@postmaster.co.uk

Re: Early Saddle Springs - long type - early saddle spring studs

Ditto that. I just voice my opinions the way I see it and have already said, I don't offer any real criticism unless asked for. I am also learning little details that are obviously not so important to others. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: Early Saddle Springs - long type - early saddle spring studs

Sorry Nathan,
i ride a beat up wm20.
Maybe i am not particular enough making my own seat spring studs,and use head light bolts are not correct.
I try not to be judgemental,I built mine to ride and enjoy and to try and educate people what war bikes are,and that gives me great enjoyment as a young bloke of 67.
All the best with your restoration. I have gained a lot from this site and i an greatly indebted to this forum and the knowledge of all the guys.
Maybe i need to pull my head in for a while.

Dave. j.

email (option): jamfam@dragnet.com.au

Re: Early Saddle Springs - long type - early saddle spring studs

Nathan, you're a rivet-counter. People will take the piss. It comes with the territory. Most of it will be good humoured, but rivet-countery seems to really upset a few. It's not worth fighting about.

One thing I would say is that there are some good engineers and fitters on here with vast experience in building vehicles and engines (I don't include myself in that, although I can follow instructions)...even then things can go wrong or not work out as expected.

It can come over as a little arrogant to suggest that a first attempt at re-creating an eighty year old motorcycle is going to surpass all that has gone before.

Most of us on here are, or have been regular motorcyclists first and foremost and a functioning enjoyable machine remains the most important aspect. We each have to find out own compromise in terms of how it looks...and at a certain point be able to say that enough is enough and if the right part turns up it can be fitted in the future.

The nightmare is turning up at an autojumble and uttering "I don't need anything"....It's never true of course.

Re: Early Saddle Springs - long type - early saddle spring studs

Careful for what you wish for......Rik has definitely got the Tee shirt. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

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