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Rescuing my WD 16H Part 2

Hey everyone, Here's the second half of my Norton WW2 Restoration.

Firstly just want to say a truly huge thank you to everyone that's been putting up with my endless questions giving me advice and selling me parts. Wouldn't be this far without all your help!

So what we know so far as a bit of a recap:) RAF Norton WD16H Late 44' Ordered Contract for 560 RAF Sidecar Combinations, Engine was built 1942.

Seen a copy of the Ministry of Supply Ledger for the original order contract thanks to one of our members.

Interestingly thanks to Rik again for showing me a picture of a bike with a census number 500 or so away from my engines with a hand written note saying Trippoli North Africa 43' Not evidence mine was over there but very interesting never the less!

Restoring her in remembrance of my Grandpa George Steele who served in the Royal Artillery 8th Army from 1941 - 1944 and RAOC 8th Army again 1944-1946. From what we know he was in Tobruk and El-Alamein on the largest guns as a gunner. Sending of for his record over the next week or so.



I got her from a deceased estate sale at auction where she was in civilian colours.

Currently weighing up whether to have another go at the petrol tank as I think I've sussed where I went wrong tilted the acrylic spray can to do the top of it with the tank supported underneath and it looks like it orange peeled slightly.

Colour is SCC.2 Brown (Farrant Brown) from warpaint with 15% Eggshell.

Tried to capture how it looks in this latest video. Speedo seemed much better although that may be just because it's curved compared to a big flat area.

Thinking of flatting it all off and then putting the tank vertical to keep the tank straight to see if I can get it better, or even screwing the tank to some wood so I can move it where I need it to be.


Very much learning as I go :)

Here's a link to the latest video taking stock of where I'm up to so far.

https://youtu.be/4KR5ca_nnuM



The last things I need to get for her are in no particular order, fuel lines, control cables, du42 headlight and blackout, tyres, 1" x1 Bar end cap, horn button, clutch and brake levers full assemblies, pillion footrests, field stand, new fuel tank cap and same for the oil tank, and do some work on the exhaust brackets.

Need to decide on the rear light set up as well whether to have one of the separate ones or one within a license plate.

email (option): tjsblade@googlemail.com

Re: Rescuing my WD 16H Part 2

Spent today trying a few different paint techniques out that are gonna spill over till tomorrow :) really enjoying the learning process.

Got a solid plan of what I wanna try in the morning.

https://youtu.be/VOWJfjE-GBc

email (option): tjsblade@googlemail.com

Re: Rescuing my WD 16H Part 2


Had a big breakthrough on my WD16H Norton paint.

Be interesting to see what you all prefer thanks to everyone for all the advice. Going to be trying some matt lacquer over the top of a test panel tomorrow.





https://youtu.be/LXR3mLkYb80

email (option): tjsblade@googlemail.com

Re: Rescuing my WD 16H Part 2

Great news today I sussed a solid plan out of what I'm going to do now. Using the now scc.2 brown metal plant pot to experiment with some matt and satin lacquer. 
While at the same time I over painted the sides of the oil tank which were rough as I'd under sprayed them to get it looking matt. Great news is the paint filled in all the dibets and I got the same smooth finish I did on the headlight shell. So not going to use as much paint and everything is already even across all the parts.

The tank finish is 7 light coats 2-3 hands distance. Which is the finish I'm re doing

Headlight shell is 3 coats hit hard. 
All got red oxide underneath which is silky smooth by Simoniz 
Filmed the experiments in the latest video :) 

Headlight has also dulled down more.

Next lot of paint is coming on Tuesday so gonna get everything prepped for then so I can spend all day Tuesday getting all the paint to the same lustre then leave her a week or so then do the lacquer.

Big thanks to everyone that's been advising me :)
Link to the video
https://youtu.be/oSnCDKpZOT8


email (option): tjsblade@googlemail.com

Re: Rescuing my WD 16H Part 2

Chatting about the progress so far on my WD16H and a little bit on what we have found out on her thanks to a few people who I'd be lost without on the wd scene. 
Every day is a learning day.

Huge thanks again to everyone:) for all the help and advice cant wait for my paint to turn up on Tuesday so I can put the extra coats on the tank and on the chassis etc





Link to the video

https://youtu.be/hqFF4QFlQk4

email (option): tjsblade@googlemail.com

Re: Rescuing my WD 16H Part 2

Huge day today Happy with the paint work now that needs about a week to dry and matt itself down like the headlight then its census numbers Norton logos and lacquer speaking of Lacquer I've moved onto testing a few different brands the speedo is with hycote matt 3 coats next to the bare paint. 
Thanks to everyone for all the advice the paint came out brilliant on the 2nd go.





email (option): tjsblade@googlemail.com

Re: Rescuing my WD 16H Part 2

Today's progress:)

https://youtu.be/TkpebV1v0t0

email (option): tjsblade@googlemail.com

Re: Rescuing my WD 16H Part 2

Huge progress today got the matt lacquer applied to most of the bike was really hot out with low humidity an the forecast looks really bad for next week so decided to go for it! Seems like it was the right choice. From where she was the other week to where she is now learnt loads on my painting technique with aerosol cans.

Just gotta decide on which way I'm going with the tank markings now :)






email (option): tjsblade@googlemail.com

Re: Rescuing my WD 16H Part 2

https://youtu.be/mNv3zRUyGi0
Video from today:)

email (option): tjsblade@googlemail.com

Re: Rescuing my WD 16H Part 2

Managed to paint an lacquer the Nos rear light :) gonna start red oxiding the rear wheel today an decide on tyres.


email (option): tjsblade@googlemail.com

Re: Rescuing my WD 16H Part 2

Nice project Tom, your doing a cracking job with it and some great pictures and links. Also nice to see a young lad taking on a job like this, your learning fast keep it up and your painting looks ace.:+1:

Tim W

email (option): t.j.walker@btinternet.com

Re: Rescuing my WD 16H Part 2

Thanks Tim really appreciate the reply :) She's gonna be one I'll never ever sell like my 650ss. Itching to use

Yeah I won't forget the painting on this bike for a long time haha!

Very enjoyable one learning how to paint an learning from my mistakes learnt an endless amount.

Probably just going to stick the Norton waterslide decals on the tank then have a think on the rest of it, interestingly my knee grips are tan, like the ones on the Raf tank on Robs website that was found by Keith. Might just be the natural colour of the rubber who knows but interesting nether the less to see those on another raf tank.

Noticed on Rob's site that the late Raf bikes retained the 1" bars which is handy as I've nearly got all the stuff for the bars.

Been making a bit of a list on the stuff I need to get over a bit of time so I know where I'm up to.

Need to decide on tyres.

1 " bar end cap. x1
1" clutch lever assy.
1" brake lever assy.
Fuel line
repair the oil lines (rubber section has snapped)
Full set of control cables.
1" horn button.
Du42 Headlight with blackout.
rear correct pillion seat.
rear later rack.
rear panniers.
sort or make a wiring loom.
Late type oil tank.
Field stand.
Passenger footrests.

Didn't expect to make as much progress as I have to be honest exciting stuff :)

Very grateful to everyone that's been giving advice.

email (option): tjsblade@googlemail.com

Re: Rescuing my WD 16H Part 2

Well guys an gals,

Had a huge breakthrough today :) Actually managed to get the Erm for my RAF chassis which would have been RAF167554. Some of the Raf records are being put into frame number order roughly Via Geoff Fletcher who works with the Raf.


How exciting is that.

email (option): tjsblade@googlemail.com

Re: Rescuing my WD 16H Part 2

Tom have you got the rubber bump stops for the girder forks - not on your list and not in your pictures so far. Small point of observation and not a criticism by any means but I think the clevis pins for the rebound spring were plated and not painted. I think you are doing a cracking job though and the progress so far is a great credit to you.

Re: Rescuing my WD 16H Part 2

Hi Keith,

Thanks I'm very humbled to own her as I say been such a lifelong dream wanna do her justice looking forward to getting stuck in once the weather gets better again the humidity is through the roof at the moment an it's been raining on an off.

Gonna order a stencil for the RAF Erm/census number for the tank. Got an Idea as well of doing something on a set of repro panniers bags in remembrance of my gramps that way its removable from the bike when I need to for events an that way I'm doing justice to both the bikes history an remembering my gramps all at the same time. Something for me to mess about drawing while we are stuck in.

Trying to decide on Raf roundels to seen some with and some without looks like most of the bikes with similar numbers to mine just had the RAF then the numbers underneath on the tank or front numberplate blade.

I haven't got a set of fork bump stops from what I understand the later bikes like mine being a late 44 ordered contract didn't have them :) I may be miss remembering on that though a lot of information to take in at the moment.

That's actually quite a good point Keith I accidentally painted them an realised by the 2nd coat hoping I can pop one off one at a time an clean the paint off should come off easy enough from the pins. Not messed with girder forks much yet. If any of you guys spot anything like that let me know always open to points like that. I'm on a mission to keep learning as much as I can really enjoying the process.

Appreciate all the time you guys are taking to teach me about this stuff.

Gonna try decide on some tyres this week got the rear one off for painting the wheel at the moment seems in great condition which is nice to see. Made in England stamped on the rim is just about legible.

Thinking of putting modern modern internals in the MCR1 Regulator. Know one of the lads said the wiring loom would have been rubber covered been looking at the repro ones that seem to be cloth covered so not sure what to do on that point.

Quite fancying a vokes at some point in the future to.

email (option): tjsblade@googlemail.com

Re: Rescuing my WD 16H Part 2

Made a bit of progress today had a workshop day inside an did some more work on the wheels the rear is ready for red oxiding now.

Re fitted the mudguards to. Screwed up at first as I followed the original pics I took of my bike an put the front stays to the outside oops! Was chatting with Horror when I noticed it thanks for the reference pics mate.

Got a bit emotional talking about the Raf numbers on her. Still so happy that I managed to find them out.  

Not to sure on my throttle grip now least I've got something to use if I need to, think its a Matchless Bowdon one think I know what you were mentioning now Ron. 

Rather hunt for the right one before I get the Canvas grips onto her an need to sort the remaining levers as well.

Need to sus out the screw size for the doherty air an advance levers.

Gonna inspect the oil pump tomorrow an then I can get the magneto back on to an start looking at timing the engine up while I'm waiting to sort the remaining parts.

Just weighing up Raf roundels the ones that I've seen within my number range seem to have RAF+number on the tank or on the front mudguard blade.

Then the RAF roundel on the sidecar. With my Sidecar missing I had a look at a few of the solo's. Seen a few with roundels on the front mudguard and seen a few with them on two locations on the tank on multiple raf pics. Seemed like it varied a bit.
Then saw an Ariel with the roundel on the mudguard and the tank and a bsa with a white part of the mudguard blade with the raf number painted on that so it's visible from above.

Then the tank Keith showed me on Rob's website in scc.2 with the raf roundels on.

Thinking most likley I'm gonna go with the R.A.F. on one line then my number just below on the tank like in two pictures I've seen then see what rooms left.

This was quite a cool pic of some early RAF bikes.

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205448328




https://youtu.be/nWil1qxmEHM 

https://ibb.co/W295tS7


email (option): tjsblade@googlemail.com

Re: Rescuing my WD 16H Part 2

Decided to try some sizing on the erm/tank number for my World War 2 RAF Norton. She's Raf167554 pretty amazing to put her original number against the tank for the first time possibly since ww2.

Not sure on the roundel yet have seen original pictures of earlier contracts with it on the tank an two pictures from my contract with just the raf lettering.

Originally the sidecar would have had the raf roundel on the sidecar. Hence the earlier pictures which were solos having it on the tank.

Pretty sure the roundel was the type without the yellow ring.

Ensign tyres came today as well :) an I spent some time today working on fixing a paint issue with fish eyes in the primer on the rear wheel pretty sure I've got that sussed now.

https://youtu.be/_u9Ih5jdk68

email (option): tjsblade@googlemail.com

Re: Rescuing my WD 16H Part 2

Question for those that have done tank numbers an decals do you do it sat on the wheels with Jack stands under the footrests or on the rear stand or stands?

email (option): tjsblade@googlemail.com

Re: Rescuing my WD 16H Part 2

I always take the tank off and paint the numbers and decals on the tank away from the machine. I work on the basis that the underside of the tank is parallel with the ground and therefore you can set the whole thing up with the tank on a table. Set all the details up on pieces of tracing paper using a soft lead pencil. Apply pencil lead to the reverse side - locate the piece of tracing paper on the tank and go over the details with the pencil again and it should leave a pencil lead outline on the tank which you can then use as a template to paint within, If you get it wrong just wipe the pencil lead off the tank and relocate and follow the same procedure till it all looks fine and then paint away.

As you may gather I do not use stencils and spray paint - everything is hand painted except the maker's transfers.

Re: Rescuing my WD 16H Part 2

Thanks Keith Sven was mentioning that before :) I'm planning on having a go how you guys said I'd like to do them originally if I can :)

Am I right in saying it's a type c roundel without the yellow lines on the bikes guys?

email (option): tjsblade@googlemail.com

Re: Rescuing my WD 16H Part 2

Unfortunately Keith, the Norton tank isn't parallel with the ground. The front mount is a lot lower than the rear and the tank slopes forward. I originally lettered my 16H tank level with the bottom edge and it looked awful on the bike. I re-did it marking a horizontal line with masking tape with the tank on the bike and the bike on it's wheels. Then took the tank off to paint it.

You can see the slope on the tank in these pictures.

image

image

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

Re: Rescuing my WD 16H Part 2

It's particularly visible on the earlier bikes with a black panel. It looks to me as if the signwriter drew a horizontal line with the bike on the rear stand. as it seems to be level in this image.

A-1940-C4102632-W5075-C-5109-8

email (option): 79x100@gmail.com

Re: Rescuing my WD 16H Part 2

Horror
Unfortunately Keith, the Norton tank isn't parallel with the ground. The front mount is a lot lower than the rear and the tank slopes forward. I originally lettered my 16H tank level with the bottom edge and it looked awful on the bike. I re-did it marking a horizontal line with masking tape with the tank on the bike and the bike on it's wheels. Then took the tank off to paint it.

You can see the slope on the tank in these pictures.



That's a fair point to make - it is quite a few years since I painted the tank on the B4. I think I may have relied on tracing the details onto the tank and placing it back on the bike before committing to paint. And yes now you mention it did not run parallel with the bottom of the tank. Apologies if I have misled anyone over this.

As the old saying goes though 'If it looks right it probably is right.'

Re: Rescuing my WD 16H Part 2

Was that the 70th-71st Dave? One of our favourite spots for a picnic at Longues battery. I can see me and my M20 in the background and I want to be there now. :yum: Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: Rescuing my WD 16H Part 2

Thanks Guy's brilliant pictures and info as always would be screwed without you all on this restm hopefully I can get the painting on the back wheel finished today an then do the front one tomorrow can wheel her about then once I've got the new tyres on. Then look at putting the Raf number an Norton logo onto the tank. Gonna have a practice at the chalk an pencil method on some old bits of metal in the garden so I don't totally fail on the tank haha.

Just looking at fonts :)

Been thinking approach wise I'm gonna try sort the bits to make her run once this last bit of painting is done, cables, fuel line, wiring, rectifier,rubber oil return line section that snapped gonna measure that later then look at re heating the brass bits up to replace the line onto the metal pipe, brake an clutch levers, correct throttle although that can come a little later.

Need to check the carb out as well so might have a look at that while I'm waiting for paint to dry. Can't get to the timing side of the engine till the wheels are back on to put the new oil seal in / check it out an refit the mag.

Hopefully when I get a du42 rear rack an the ribbed type oil tank it all matches fairly decent to the rest of the bike when I paint it :)

email (option): tjsblade@googlemail.com

Re: Rescuing my WD 16H Part 2

Ron Pier
Was that the 70th-71st Dave? One of our favourite spots for a picnic at Longues battery. I can see me and my M20 in the background and I want to be there now. :yum: Ron
I can't remember the last time you took your M20 to Normandy Ron, you're on an Enfeild at most of them. It looks too quiet for the 70th as we had about 50 bikes with us wherever we went, and Ross wasn't at that one. So might be the 71st 2015.

We're booked on the ferry for June, hopping I'll get my money back.

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

Re: Rescuing my WD 16H Part 2

Yes me, Biggsy and the 3 musketeers are all booked too. But Brittany Ferries have reassured that we can change out sailing date up to 14 days beforehand at no charge. Maybe go in September for a change?

Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: Rescuing my WD 16H Part 2

Yes it would be good to do something this year. It was going to be a very quiet year anyway so going later on wouldn't make much difference.
Sorry we've gone off topic.

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

Re: Rescuing my WD 16H Part 2

Hi guys I'm the worst for going off topic haha so don't worry about it whatever keeps us sane + I'm interesting in getting along to all these things with you guys if you don't mind a tag along when the time comes:)

That's good that you can change your date on the ferry Ron.

Who's everyone using for control cable components in the uk ? :) Gonna have a go at making my control cables next week if I can get some bits ordered. Gonna need one of the clutch/brake adjusters as well got one I can remove from an original toolkit I found in the toolbox.

Waiting on primer turning up again so trying to sus out the next steps on the bike while I'm at a total stop managed to fix the fisheye issue with the primer on the rear paint.

Is it worth buying a full kit like the Venhill ones or another supplier?

Having a hunt for the waterslide transfer for the raf roundel an which type to use. Saw a document via Rik that mentioned 44 they started using a transfer.

Thanks in advance :)

email (option): tjsblade@googlemail.com

Re: Rescuing my WD 16H Part 2

Just been going through all the Raf pictures I've been building up thanks to everyone as reference for doing my markings,

Got 7 separate pics with RAF roundels on the front mudguard including two combo's.

Got 3 pics with the RAF ERM Number on the Petrol tank one with the Roundel below where the Norton logo sits with the RAF ERM number.
Two of these are potentially from my contract I say potentially as only part of the number is visible on one of the pictures.

One That Steve posted in the other thread that has the RAF ERM on the number plate + One Rob an Rik posted with just the RAF ERM on the number plate.

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205448328

Interestingly a document Rik showed me relating to RAF vehicle markings mentioned in 44' the roundel was a transfer. Another post on Hmvf mentioned after speaking to the RAF Museum the roundel size was 3.5 inches which seems to add up with what I set my test one to comparison wise to what they look like in the pictures size wise.

Seem's to be a bit of variance seen a few with an without the Norton logo as well both on solo's an combo's.

Just hunting for somewhere that can do a waterslide think that's the type to use for a RAF Decal an which exact roundel to use least I've got the size sussed.

http://woodair.net/Aviation/roundels/RAF_Roundels.htm
Stumbled on this which was interesting that shows an original decal down at the bottom from a car.

No Progress on bits today although I used some of the brush on primer on the rear wheel so I can sand that smooth tomorrow for paint an lacquer. Hopefully have her back on her wheels mid next week ready for me attempting to do the ERM Number.

Seeing I removed the number plate (was the wrong plate size anyway) I'm gonna stick the ERM on the tank.

Some Red Oxide spray I ordered a few weeks ago is actually shipped so hopefully I can do the front wheel with the spray rather than brush on.

Am I right in saying the clutch an brake levers for 44' on are the pressed type with the gap at the back? Gonna start hunting for some. Tend to remember Ron showing me at some point but I've forgot.

Just wanna say thanks again to everyone that's been advising and helping with bits huge help.

email (option): tjsblade@googlemail.com

Re: Rescuing my WD 16H Part 2

Painting the rear wheel :) really happy with the result 3 coats of Simoniz Red Oxide Primer, 3 coats of War Paint Farrant Brown and 3 coats of Hycoat Matt Lacquer. At the same time I touched my mudguard up where it had picked a few chips up which was a good opportunity to practice technique.

Hope you are all safe and enjoying the lil mini videos feel free to subscribe an check out the other 20 mini videos in the series playlist.

Got one of the levers on the way via Olav including a clamp so that's one down one to go :)

Here's the link to the latest video


https://youtu.be/ce-BJoimF7A

email (option): tjsblade@googlemail.com

Re: Rescuing my WD 16H Part 2

Quite a decent workshop day today got the new tyres fitted with the original levers from my 650ss :) feels great to see her sat on the wheels again!

Next step is to paint the Raf Erm and roundels on + the Norton logo that'll be exciting!!

https://youtu.be/rheJuK1Ip-g

email (option): tjsblade@googlemail.com

Re: Rescuing my WD 16H Part 2

Jumping the gun here slightly as the video isnt uploaded yet but was excited to show you all started to put her original Raf numbers back on! Super exciting an humbling moment. Brush painting and well for that extra bit of detail :)



email (option): tjsblade@googlemail.com

Re: Rescuing my WD 16H Part 2

Midnight an I'm peeling stencils off some glue to rub off once it dries

email (option): tjsblade@googlemail.com

Re: Rescuing my WD 16H Part 2

Super happy with how her original Raf erm number came out :) brush painted with a stencil. Next step is roundels thinking of just the one on the front mudguard seen a substantial amount of raf Nortons with the roundel on the front guard both solos and sidecar combinations like mine. + the erm and no Norton logo.

1 picture with the erm norton logo an the roundel on the tank.

An a few with just the roundel an a few with just the erm.




email (option): tjsblade@googlemail.com

Re: Rescuing my WD 16H Part 2

Latest video :) Painting the original Erm Raf number onto the tank an starting the roundels had a few hickups along the way but getting there with it :D

Been really interesting learning how to do the tank number painting. Hope you all enjoy.

https://youtu.be/I2vmGliCBpE

email (option): tjsblade@googlemail.com

Re: Rescuing my WD 16H Part 2

Spent today putting the Norton waterslide transfers on and hand painting the Raf roundels on shes really starting to come to life now!!
Emotional moment seeing her original Raf number an the roundels starting to go on!
Thanks again to everyone that's been advising as I go along :)



email (option): tjsblade@googlemail.com

Re: Rescuing my WD 16H Part 2


Just another correction lads I was referring to her original raf wartime number as an erm that was wrong :) should just be referred to as the original raf wartime number thanks to Dave for passing some research onto me was getting my terms mixed up.

In other news got the headlight with blackout on the way so that should be with me in the next few days so I can get it painted an on.

email (option): tjsblade@googlemail.com

Re: Rescuing my WD 16H Part 2

Credit to Rik as usual, I just asked the question.

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

Re: Rescuing my WD 16H Part 2

Well cheers lads I'm constantly learning :D be lost without you all.

I hadd totally miss read it on that page I sent you mate nice to be learning the correct terms for stuff just re read the email trail from Geoff an he referred to it like you guys when he gave me my raf number. Sometimes I can get a bit mixed up on stuff like that heavily dyslexic.

Job for tomorrow is to get the white an red painted on the tank roundels, then that's all done super excited to see how its gonna look.

All my levers are here to so gotta get hunting for the throttle an horn button an that's the bars finished after that!

Looking forward to getting the mag back on as well just want to pop the timing cover off an check that all out. Does anyone know a stockist for the screws that go on the bottom of the mag plate. Looks like mine have had some hammer over the years.

Big bits left to get are a field stand rear carrier, racks and bags+ pillion seat an footrest amp meter an a few other bits an pieces gonna inspect the carb tomorrow as well.

email (option): tjsblade@googlemail.com

Re: Rescuing my WD 16H Part 2

Finished the Raf roundels today super humbling seeing them + her original wartime Raf number.
They have really dried back since these pictures an are a superb deep dull matt!
I'll get the camera out tomorrow an take some propper pics.

Thanks again to everyone who's been giving me advice :)

Got into the engine tonight an shes had a new oil pump at some point an it all looked pretty good bar one bit of damage to the timing cover that I've gotta look at fixing.

Tomorrows job is to paint the rear stand an my headlight if it turns up although that might take a few days an start working out what screws an bolts I need to order that I'm short on.






email (option): tjsblade@googlemail.com

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