Hi Gents,
i have come across a restored 1941 Big 4 for Sale and wondering what would be it`s value in UK pounds, then i will convert to OZ dollars.?
I will not include a photo,to respect the seller (private)Did many big 4`s come to Australia?
DaveJames

email (option): jamfam@dragnet.com.au

I've sent Norton Big 4 parts to 4 Australians and 1 New Zealander, so some definitely went down there.(war-time or post-war??) Since all of them had their SWD parts cut or missing, I'd guess they are post war sales.

I recently sold a complete project B4 with all restored parts (Basically needing top coat paint and assembly) for 20 Grand (GB) and I've heard of another project B4 in Netherlands with a price tag of 28K Euros.

Just to give you some idea. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Thanks Ron,
Makes this one look cheap !
I t has the chair with clutch that drives the side car wheel all
Intact
Cheers with thanks. Dave j

A while back I went through all the Australian military ledgers and counted 241 Big4 combinations delivered to Australia during the war.

Rob

https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/AWM126/

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

This is from a spread sheet I made, but its not copying and pasting very well.

Rob

Book AMF Serial Frame No.
193 14000 3251 868 Sub Park 2
193 14001 3286 868 Boarded G33 2
193 14002 3261 868 Sub Park 2
193 14003 3269 868 Sub Park 2
193 14004 3256 868 Sub Park 2
193 14005 3267 868 2
193 14006 3258 868 Sub Park 2
193 14007 3264 868 2
193 14008 3285 868 Boarded G33 2
193 14009 3270 868 2
193 14010 3259 868 2
193 14011 3260 868 Boarded G33 2
193 14012 3271 868 Sub Park 2
193 14013 3272 868 2
193 14014 3284 868 Sub Park 2
193 14015 3253 868 Sub Park 2
193 14016 3254 868 Sub Park 2
193 14017 3252 868 Boarded G33 2
193 14018 3268 868 Sub Park 2
193 14019 3255 868 Sub Park 2
193 14020 3283 868 2
193 14021 3257 868 Sub Park 2
195 30191 3308 868 3
195 30192 3330 868 Sub Park 3
195 30193 3314 868 Sub Park 3
195 30194 3287 868 Sub Park 3
195 30195 3332 868 Boarded G33 3
195 30196 3301 868 Sub Park 3
195 30197 3307 868 Sub Park 3
195 30198 3298 868 3
195 30199 3321 868 Sub Park 3
195 30200 3309 868 Boarded G33 3
195 30201 3306 868 3
195 30202 3322 868 Sub Park 3
195 30203 3315 868 3
195 30204 3304 868 Sub Park 3
195 30205 3319 868 Boarded G33 3
195 30206 3333 868 Sub Park 3
195 30207 3311 868 Sub Park 3
195 30208 3320 868 Boarded G33 4
195 30209 3305 868 Boarded G33 4
195 30210 3300 868 4
195 30211 3302 868 Boarded G33 4
198 49453 40880 Sub Park 2
198 49454 41211 Boarded 33 2
198 49455 41188 Boarded 33 2
198 49456 41222 Sub Park 2
198 49457 41044 Sub Park 2
198 49458 40935 Boarded 33 2
198 49459 27766 Sub Park 2
198 49460 27666 Sub Park 2
198 49461 2759 Sub Park 2
198 49462 2785 2
198 49463 2788 Sub Park 2
198 49464 2865 Boarded G33 2
198 49465 2783 Sub Park 2
198 49466 2769 Sub Park 2
198 49467 2764 2
198 49468 2778 Sub Park 2
198 49469 2803 Sub Park 2
198 49470 2860 2
198 49471 2760 2
198 49472 2777 Sub Park 2
198 49473 2773 Sub Park 2
198 49474 27966 2
198 49475 2802 2
198 49476 2864 Sub Park 2
198 49477 28222 Sub Park 2
198 49478 2863 Sub Park 2
198 49479 28499 Sub Park 2
198 49480 2758 Sub Park 2
198 49481 3832 Sub Park 2
198 49482 2831 Sub Park 2
198 49483 28599 Sub Park 2
198 49484 27611 Sub Park 2
198 49485 28566 Sub Park 2
198 49486 27998 2
198 49487 28223 Sub Park 2
198 49488 28622 2
198 49489 2815 Sub Park 2
198 49490 2762 Sub Park 2
198 49491 28477 Sub Park 2
198 49492 28666 Sub Park 2
198 49493 2757 Sub Park 2
198 49494 2834 Sub Park 2
198 49495 2779 Sub Park 2
198 49496 2774 2
198 49497 2763 Sub Park 2
198 49498 2768 Sub Park 2
198 49499 2784 Sub Park 2
198 49500 2868 Sub Park 2
198 50009 86856 NG
202 83491 5828 Sub Park NSW
202 83492 5818 4707818 Sub Park NSW
202 83493 5823 4707823 NSW
202 83494 5827 4707827 Sub Park NSW
202 83495 5822 Sub Park NSW
202 83496 5766 NSW
202 83497 5819 Sub Park NSW
202 83498 5816 4707816 NSW
202 83499 5821 4707821 Sub Park NSW
202 83500 5814 Sub Park NSW
202 85251 4101 868 3
202 85252 4120 868 Sub Park 3
202 85253 4098 868 Sub Park 3
202 85254 4096 868 Sub Park 3
202 85255 4113 868 Sub Park 3
202 85256 4099 868 Sub Park 3
202 85257 4119 868 Sub Park 3
202 85258 4114 868 Sub Park 3
202 85259 4109 868 Sub Park 3
202 85260 4103 868 Boarded G33 3
202 85261 4110 868 Sub Park 3
202 85262 4097 868 Sub Park 3
202 85263 4107 868 3
202 85264 4111 868 Sub Park 3
202 85265 4105 868 Sub Park 3
202 85266 4088 868 Sub Park 3
202 85267 4116 868 Sub Park 3
202 85268 4112 868 Sub Park 3
202 85269 2756 Boarded G33 3
202 85270 2747 Sub Park 3
202 85271 2750 Sub Park 3
202 85272 2745 Sub Park 3
202 85273 2746 Sub Park 3
202 85274 2753 Sub Park 3
202 85275 2736 Sub Park 3
202 85276 2725 Boarded G33 3
202 85277 2748 Sub Park 3
202 85278 2752 Sub Park 3
202 85279 2749 Sub Park 3
202 85280 2754 Sub Park 3
202 85281 2751 Sub Park 3
202 85282 2795 Sub Park V
202 85283 2829 Sub Park 3
202 85284 2839 Sub Park 3
202 85285 2811 US NAVY 3
202 85286 2844 Sub Park 3
202 85287 2833 Sub Park 3
202 85288 2794 Sub Park V
202 85289 2825 Sub Park V
202 85290 2816 Sub Park V
202 85291 2787 RAAF V
202 85292 2841 Sub Park V
202 85293 2838 Boarded G33 V
202 85294 2872 RAAF V
202 85295 2870 RAAF V
202 85296 2807 Sub Park V
202 85297 2806 3
202 85298 2821 Sub Park 3
202 85299 2837 Sub Park 3
202 85300 2805 3
202 85301 2857 Boarded G33 3
202 85302 2826 VB
202 85303 2850 3
202 85304 2875 Boarded G33 3
202 85305 2826 Sub Park 3
202 85306 2874 Sub Park 3
202 85307 2760 Sub Park 3
202 85308 2786 Sub Park 3
202 85309 2845 Sub Park 3
202 85311 2857 3
202 85312 2830 VB
202 85313 2820 Sub Park VB
202 85314 2871 Sub Park VB
202 85315 2819 Boarded G33 VB
202 85316 2869 Sub Park VB
202 85317 2853 Boarded G33 VB
202 85318 2835 VB
202 85319 2792 Boarded G33 VB
202 85320 2808 Sub Park VB
202 85321 2855 Boarded G33 VB
202 85322 2872 Sub Park VB
202 85323 2843 VB
202 85324 2842 Boarded G33 VB
202 85325 2851 Sub Park VB
202 85400 2817 Boarded G40 3
202 85826 2737 Solo 16H or Big4? Boarded G33 1
202 85829 2810 Sub Park 1
202 85830 2772 Sub Park 1
202 85831 5799 Solo Sub Park Q
202 85832 5813 Sub Park Q
202 85833 5824 Q
202 85834 5831 Q
202 86220 3313 868 Boarded G33 3
202 86221 3347 868 Sub Park 3
202 86222 3341 868 Sub Park 3
202 86223 3369 868 Boarded G40 3
202 86224 3337 868 Sub Park 3
202 86225 3408 868 Boarded G33 3
202 86226 3373 868 Sub Park 3
202 86227 3399 868 Written off 3
202 86228 3401 868 Sub Park 3
202 86229 3351 868 Sub Park 3
202 86230 3368 868 Boarded G33 3
202 86307 3350 868 Boarded G33 3
202 86308 3348 868 W/O Queensland 5/2/47 3
202 86309 3343 868 Sub Park 3
202 86310 3349 868 Sub Park 3
202 86311 3362 868 Sub Park 3
202 86312 3299 868 Sub Park 3
202 86313 3329 868 Sub Park 3
202 86314 3406 868 Sub Park 3
202 86315 3342 868 Sub Park 3
202 86316 3372 868 Sub Park 3
202 86317 3411 868 Sub Park 3
202 87014 4108 Sub Park NSW
202 87015 4115 Sub Park NSW
202 87016 4117 NSW
202 87017 4106 Boarded G33 NSW
202 87201 2662 Sub Park WA
202 87202 5793 Sub Park WA
202 87203 2647 Sub Park WA
202 87204 5807 Sub Park WA
202 87205 5781 Sub Park WA
202 87206 2649 Sub Park WA
202 87207 2867 Sub Park WA
202 87208 2818 Sub Park WA
202 87209 2800 Sub Park WA
202 87210 2562 Sub Park WA
202 87211 2814 Sub Park WA
202 87212 2848 Ruled out by ministry WA
202 87213 2653 Sub Park WA
202 87214 2474 Sub Park WA
202 87215 2797 Sub Park WA
202 87216 2824 WA
202 87217 2858 Sub Park WA
202 87218 5796 WA
202 87219 2873 Sub Park WA
202 87220 2615 Sub Park WA
202 87221 2854 Sub Park WA
202 87222 2646 Sub Park WA
202 87223 2692 Sub Park WA
202 87224 2861 Sub Park WA
202 87225 2666 Sub Park WA
202 87226 2557 Sub Park WA
202 87227 2846 Sub Park WA
202 87228 2651 Sub Park WA
202 87229 2617 Sub Park WA
202 87230 2472 Sub Park WA
202 87231 2840 Sub Park WA

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Well done with that Rob! I'm trying to correlate that list with what's in O&M but it's making my eyes hurt!!

Keep us informed if you buy it Dave. (with pictures) It might already be one that we know of. Here's mine, which I've owned for over 20 years.

Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

I also exchanged quite a few parts with a guy in Australia in the mid 1970s who had acquired a complete SWD Big 4 with passenger sidecar and all the SWD parts intact but in need of full restoration. He had also acquired a trailer with it which appeared to be original although I have never seen another. He suggested to me that the machine and trailer had been used on an airfield taking out ammunition and the like to fighter aircraft. How accurate that was I have no idea but it did seem to have some logic to it.

As far as I am aware the whole outfit was fully restored so I guess will still be about - down under.

Here is the list again sorted by frame number in the third column.

Rob

202 87230 2472
202 87214 2474
202 87226 2557
202 87210 2562
202 87220 2615
202 87229 2617
202 87222 2646
202 87203 2647
202 87206 2649
202 87228 2651
202 87213 2653
202 87201 2662
202 87225 2666
202 87223 2692
202 85276 2725
202 85275 2736
202 85826 2737
202 85272 2745
202 85273 2746
202 85270 2747
202 85277 2748
202 85279 2749
202 85271 2750
202 85281 2751
202 85278 2752
202 85274 2753
202 85280 2754
202 85269 2756
198 49493 2757
198 49480 2758
198 49461 2759
198 49471 2760
202 85307 2760
198 49490 2762
198 49497 2763
198 49467 2764
198 49498 2768
198 49466 2769
202 85830 2772
198 49473 2773
198 49496 2774
198 49472 2777
198 49468 2778
198 49495 2779
198 49465 2783
198 49499 2784
198 49462 2785
202 85308 2786
202 85291 2787
198 49463 2788
202 85319 2792
202 85288 2794
202 85282 2795
202 87215 2797
202 87209 2800
198 49475 2802
198 49469 2803
202 85300 2805
202 85297 2806
202 85296 2807
202 85320 2808
202 85829 2810
202 85285 2811
202 87211 2814
198 49489 2815
202 85290 2816
202 85400 2817
202 87208 2818
202 85315 2819
202 85313 2820
202 85298 2821
202 87216 2824
202 85289 2825
202 85302 2826
202 85305 2826
202 85283 2829
202 85312 2830
198 49482 2831
202 85287 2833
198 49494 2834
202 85318 2835
202 85299 2837
202 85293 2838
202 85284 2839
202 87231 2840
202 85292 2841
202 85324 2842
202 85323 2843
202 85286 2844
202 85309 2845
202 87227 2846
202 87212 2848
202 85303 2850
202 85325 2851
202 85317 2853
202 87221 2854
202 85321 2855
202 85301 2857
202 85311 2857
202 87217 2858
198 49470 2860
202 87224 2861
198 49478 2863
198 49476 2864
198 49464 2865
202 87207 2867
198 49500 2868
202 85316 2869
202 85295 2870
202 85314 2871
202 85294 2872
202 85322 2872
202 87219 2873
202 85306 2874
202 85304 2875
193 14000 3251
193 14017 3252
193 14015 3253
193 14016 3254
193 14019 3255
193 14004 3256
193 14021 3257
193 14006 3258
193 14010 3259
193 14011 3260
193 14002 3261
193 14007 3264
193 14005 3267
193 14018 3268
193 14003 3269
193 14009 3270
193 14012 3271
193 14013 3272
193 14020 3283
193 14014 3284
193 14008 3285
193 14001 3286
195 30194 3287
195 30198 3298
202 86312 3299
195 30210 3300
195 30196 3301
195 30211 3302
195 30204 3304
195 30209 3305
195 30201 3306
195 30197 3307
195 30191 3308
195 30200 3309
195 30207 3311
202 86220 3313
195 30193 3314
195 30203 3315
195 30205 3319
195 30208 3320
195 30199 3321
195 30202 3322
202 86313 3329
195 30192 3330
195 30195 3332
195 30206 3333
202 86224 3337
202 86222 3341
202 86315 3342
202 86309 3343
202 86221 3347
202 86308 3348
202 86310 3349
202 86307 3350
202 86229 3351
202 86311 3362
202 86230 3368
202 86223 3369
202 86316 3372
202 86226 3373
202 86227 3399
202 86228 3401
202 86314 3406
202 86225 3408
202 86317 3411
198 49481 3832
202 85266 4088
202 85254 4096
202 85262 4097
202 85253 4098
202 85256 4099
202 85251 4101
202 85260 4103
202 85265 4105
202 87017 4106
202 85263 4107
202 87014 4108
202 85259 4109
202 85261 4110
202 85264 4111
202 85268 4112
202 85255 4113
202 85258 4114
202 87015 4115
202 85267 4116
202 87016 4117
202 85257 4119
202 85252 4120
202 83496 5766
202 87205 5781
202 87202 5793
202 87218 5796
202 85831 5799
202 87204 5807
202 85832 5813
202 83500 5814
202 83498 5816
202 83492 5818
202 83497 5819
202 83499 5821
202 83495 5822
202 83493 5823
202 85833 5824
202 83494 5827
202 83491 5828
202 85834 5831
198 49484 27611
198 49460 27666
198 49459 27766
198 49474 27966
198 49486 27998
198 49477 28222
198 49487 28223
198 49491 28477
198 49479 28499
198 49485 28566
198 49483 28599
198 49488 28622
198 49492 28666
198 49453 40880
198 49458 40935
198 49457 41044
198 49455 41188
198 49454 41211
198 49456 41222
198 50009 86856

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Rob those last 20 with 5 figure frame numbers, could they be 16H?

Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Possibly or maybe just typos, there is an earlier frame number recorded twice in one ledger?

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

I looked at the Norton Big 4 in question today at the Corowa Swim-In & Military Vehicle Gathering in NSW Australia, there is another Big4 combination entered into the event as well.

We have the Motorcycle Rideout tomorrow to Wooragee, so hope these machines take part.

regards,
Richard Farrant
KVE Inc.

Pictures Richard! Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Hello Rob,

I think you did not find all the B4's.
I put them all in Excel in 2018 in order to add them to the website and came to a grand total of 261 combinations.
15 of them have had double census numbers, one for AMF and one for AIF.
E.g. MC with frame S3287 was first registered as AMF C30194 and afterwards as AIF C17872.

Breakup per contract as follows
contract (number)
C3565 (4)
V3849 (1)
C7576 (186)
C11297 (25)
CM13056 (45)


Cheers,

Rob

www.wdnorton.nl

email (option): wd16h@telfort.nl

Hi Rob

You could be right, at the time I was eagerly watching for each ledger to be released and mostly concentrating on the BSA numbers so I may have missed some.

Its strange that so many of the "5" digit Norton combination numbers end in a "double", its almost like the clerk writing them out had a stutter?

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Thanks for all the info Ron and Rob, much appreciated.
Cheers Dave

I know of 1 of owner of a post war B4 here in Melbourne.

Matty, Norton were making their model Big 4 since Edwardian days. The biggest engines '633cc' were fitted in the WD SWD version which ceased production in 1942, as the American Jeep became the new 'low profile reconnaissance vehicle' The post war Big 4 was 600cc and production carried on through the 50's. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Hi Rob, and other interested readers

I made mistakes myself I just saw.
When making the overall assesment I forgot a number of machines, 48 to be exact.
I now come to a total of 309 combinations.

Divided over the contracts as follows:

contract (number)
V3565 (4)
V3849 (1)
C7576 (212)
C11297 (26)
CM13056 (45)

I added the 5 digit numbers (21) into the total but not in the contract break up. They are strange in any form.
Assuming the "S" was erroneoulsy read as being a "2", all, except 4 of the numbers would not fit in the known ranges.
The relative large number of double digits is also strange.
Leaving off the last digit gives a sensible range but then I get multiple MC's with identical frame numbers.
I am afraid these numbers will remain a mystery.

Cheers

Rob

www.wdnorton.nl

email (option): wd16h@telfort.nl

Rob I see you have 2766 listed on your website as being in Australia, I wonder if this could be "27666"?

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Hi Rob,

I have two S2760 in the AWM listing (one with C49471 and one for C85307). Maybe one of those was actually 2766 as that particular one is missing. I do not believe B4's in Australia with numbers in that range are recent additions. They must have been there already.

These registers were not as accurate as we would all like to have, ref also the 5 digit B4 numbers.

Going through pre war Norton Assy and Engine books I find quite a lot of mistakes like multiple identical numbers, sometimes even on the same page.
Mistakes in either book but also mistakes between te books which were supposed to show identical frame and engine number combinations.
For my 1937 WD16H I find a different numbers for the engine between the assy book and the engine book. Frustrating as it is impossible to know what is correct.

Cheers,

Rob

email (option): wd16h@telfort.nl