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Re: Grease Nipples, Grease gun, Oil Gun, puzzle

It has to do, with bringing all the nomenclature in line with the US system, so the supply of things was greatly simplified.

Cheers, Lex

email (option): welbike@welbi🤯🤯.net

Re: Grease Nipples, Grease gun, Oil Gun, puzzle

I'm wondering if the Tecalemit nipples are the waterproof type with a tiny sprung ball, maybe Norton had already changed to this design earlier than BSA and some other makers?

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Re: Grease Nipples, Grease gun, Oil Gun, puzzle

Bringing things in line with the US doesn't make it simpler, Lex - They think that the spanner AF size of a fastener is more important than the diameter :smirk:

The puzzle here I think is C600 - Clearly in use in 1937 then replaced by engine oil or Grease GS, only to re-appear. Was this because 'Grease No.2' was heavier than 'Grease, GS' and unsuitable for most motorcycle applications ?

Rob, I'll check my nipples when I get home :flushed:

Re: Grease Nipples, Grease gun, Oil Gun, puzzle

When it comes to the change in oil number again we don't have the actual DME circular B.456 25/2/43 but I imagine it said something like this?

b

13

14

15

oils-43

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Re: Grease Nipples, Grease gun, Oil Gun, puzzle

It's perhaps worth mentioning that not all WD motorcycles carried oil or grease guns in their toolkits............take the WD/RE and the James ML for example......both types have a fairly comprehensive tool kit including chain link tools and chain spares, spark-plug, insulation tape, binding wire, etc...............but no grease nor oil guns despite both types having a generous selection of nipples........

Re: Grease Nipples, Grease gun, Oil Gun, puzzle

Good point Steve, is there any mention of a task system in the handbooks for the two stroke lightweights?

And I wonder how they got on if they turned up a RASC petrol depot in Normandy for a refill and asked for a squirt of two stroke oil, its not mentioned in the list above?


Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Re: Grease Nipples, Grease gun, Oil Gun, puzzle

Rob, the two-stroke lightweights include the usual comprehensive lubrication chart in the literature, both manuals being published during 1943.......interestingly, specific two-stroke oil is not specified......instead, oil 30 HD is specified to be mixed with the fuel in a particular ratio (16 to 1)..........on the James ML grease No.2 is specified for the front and rear hubs (that ran on cup and cone bearings)......fork spindles carrying standard grease nipples are specified for Oil C.600 and everything else for Oil 30 HD........

I'm not at all sure why the WD/RE and the James ML were excluded from both oil and/or grease guns in the toolkits, as both machines were subject to the "task system" as detailed in the rider's handbooks.........limited mileage/use may be the possible answer here, although with the James in particular there is much photographic evidence showing considerable use during the Normandy campaign away from the beaches.....

Re: Grease Nipples, Grease gun, Oil Gun, puzzle

Rob, Thanks for posting the oil grades info. It clears up a lot for me...C600 was definitely an oil, but a tallow-based 'Compounded gear oil' https://petroleumservicecompany.com/blog/what-are-compounded-gear-oils/...It certainly suggests that there may be a case for using something thicker than engine oil in a Norton gearbox.

There is no mention of the M265 engine oil - perhaps a straight 40 ?

The Tecalemeit gun was a standard toolkit item with Norton. The Wesco however is not included in the 'Equipment to Scale' in 1938 and the earliest reference that I have is December 1939. I can't see how, in 1938 it was possible to lubricate both forks and gearbox with C600 using just the Tecalemit gun.

When did specific 2-stroke oil appear ? I have a feeling that it was during the late 1950s in order to improve suspension...prior to that, it was standard motor oil. Even into the 1970s, garage 'two stroke' pumps were often filled with any old motor oil.

My definite 1939 Tecalemit Norton nipples have no spring and ball. I shall investigate the possibility of finding a tallow-based compound oil and experiment with an oil gun.



Re: Grease Nipples, Grease gun, Oil Gun, puzzle

Rob, yes that red printed thing is in my Welbike manual too, and it says in the text you posted that US and Canadian vehicles used Hypoid oil, so I do have a memory!

Also in your pages it mentions the colour coding for the different oils, so maybe the Wesco oilcans changed colour from silver to yellow in 1943?

Steve, the Flying Flea did use a grease gun, check it in the manual and p/l. (have not checked the James)

It's a small bicycle grease gun.



Cheers,

Lex

email (option): welbike@welbi**.net (think about this!)

Re: Grease Nipples, Grease gun, Oil Gun, puzzle

Not listed at all anywhere for the ML Lex.........

Re: Grease Nipples, Grease gun, Oil Gun, puzzle

Here's the Flea drawing, it's also a Tecalemite

Cheers,

Lex



PS, note the metal tyre pump Ron!

email (option): welbike@welbi**.net (think about this!)

Re: Grease Nipples, Grease gun, Oil Gun, puzzle

I guess it depends which parts list you have! Here's my Flea parts list for S7112 (last contract) which shows a Bakelite pump and no grease gun.
Scan-20190915-2
Scan-20190915

And my ML parts list for contract S1972. Again Bakelite pump and no grease gun.
Scan-20190915-3
Scan-20190915-4

My current situation is that I have a Bakelite pump on my ML and a steel one on my Flea.....I think I'll just leave it like that:relaxed: Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: Grease Nipples, Grease gun, Oil Gun, puzzle

Going back to the change from M220 to 50.H.D oil, the instuction's for completely changing the engine oil are very detailed but there is no mention of flushing the gearbox out before changing to the new detergent oil, maybe there are more detailed instructions in the complete DME circular or maybe it was safe to mix them in a gearbox which didn't get as hot?

And the "packaging" colours are interesting, Wesco cans have been found in Yellow, Silver (grey?) and Red which does match that list, but as most surviving Wesco can seem to be a variation of yellow is it likely they were all used for "Light oil" ?

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Re: Grease Nipples, Grease gun, Oil Gun, puzzle

I don't think that a gearcase would suffer problems if a 'detergent' oil caused crud to come loose. The odd thing is that modern reports suggest that while detergent oils keep particles in suspension, they don't actually clean old oil deposits. Maybe that's because there have been no true 'straight' oils for seventy-five years and actually the early detergents did have a cleaning action ?

Colour coding seems to have been likely with workshop 1/2 pint cans and the need is obvious but less so with a single can carried by a motorcyclist. I suspect that the pre-war cans were finished in aluminium paint which became unavailable so a copper metallic was substituted and then finally the mustard straight colour which was on the last of the brass cap and all of the steel pressed cap 200 Wescos.

The great puzzle for me remains how they could have expected C600 oil to stay in a Tecalemeit grease gun (no seals and no cap). They were grease guns...

Tecalemit

Was C600 rated at 600 centistokes or was the numbering coincidental ?

Re: Grease Nipples, Grease gun, Oil Gun, puzzle

Well, if the only gain I get from this thread is the fact that the nipples didn't have a spring and ball I shall be happy! Mine don't and after the misery of finding a complete set of them and having them chromed, I'd have been very upset I'd gotten it wrong. ! Phew!!

email (option): sam-cormier@hotmail.com

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