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Re: 16H woes - valves

Yes, a friend had the same, bronze lifters weren't tightened at all, you need a box spanner to do it properly, and lift and turn the cylinder to do it
Have fun,

Lex

email (option): welbike@welbi🤣🤣.net

Re: 16H woes - valves

It seems Norton unhelpfully don't give valve to guide clearances in their literature...At the time it was impossible either to find that info. or to get a clear recommendation from a Norton user!

I did the work on Riks engine which, as far as I am aware to date, has solved the problem...I applied a guide to stem clearance of .001" more (after fitting)than the better lubricated but essentially similar BSA M20...I also contacted Morris Lubricants for a grease recommendation as that is also a relevant factor...If the oils melt out of the grease it fails as a lubricant and in a worse case scenario can leave baked on deposits that can actually cause seizure...

I can't now remember what their recommendation was but I'm sure Rik may chip in with the specification of the grease he uses currently...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: 16H woes - valves

I don't actually recall a discussion with Morris Lubricants, but I did a lot of research into current greases and only succeeded in worrying myself more...Even the Texaco 'Multifac' which had been a recommendation for years in aero engines with exposed valves seems to have been subjected to a changed solids package.

It seems evident to me that unlike in an OHV design, side-valves in general and the 16H in particular have no pockets or wells to act as a reservoir for grease to continue to melt out for any worthwhile period...Once the engine is hot, it's gone, leaving only the solids which make things worse...I've now gone over to a system of removing the nipples and pumping the guides full of engine oil with a Wesco can before every trip.

I think also that the G&S plasma-coated valves are a good thing...certainly when compared with the vagaries of New Old Stock from uncontrollable sources...we just don't know what we're using. I'm pretty sure that supplies of original have become mixed up with cheap 1950s and 1960s pattern stuff as well as supplies from foreign government suppliers for the machines that they kept in service after the factory closed.

I do now also use Millers VSPe fuel additive which is a manganese based lead replacement that is claimed to provide some valve stem lubrication....

So far so good, although mileage has been low over the last few years.

Re: 16H woes - valves

The G&S stainless nitrided valves are brilliant. When I built my engine, I slide a standard valve in and out of the guide without oil, you could feel the friction. But the nitrided valve slide in easily like it was on ice. I've use G&S valves in all the engines I've built since, even fitted them in my Commando and they were cheaper than standard ones from Andover Norton. However, I was told that you shouldn't fit stainless valves in iron guides unless they are nitrided.

Referring to the 16H lubrication, I hardly think about it. Once a year I put a bit of high melting point grease in the nipples but also get a screwdriver and wipe it on the valve stems and inside the springs so it's caked around it. There's plenty in there when I take off the cover and some of it's going to work up the stems.

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

Re: 16H woes - valves

Thanks, all. I'll not worry too much until I have a problem with excess wear. I'll carry on pushing some lithium grease in when I think about it. On my Dommie, I don't think much lubricant gets to valve guides - all the gas pressure is in the opposite direction anyway, but Norton must have tested the need for grease nipples on the 16H before they fitted them (mustn't they?).

I'll try and have a word with Les at Russells some time (he's just down the road from me).
On that topic - I wish the other family members there would take an interest in old bikes - even if only in looking after the stock. Les won't be there forever, and I fear that one day in the not too distant future I'll turn up at the shop and he'll have retired.

email (option): dijacooper@btinternet.com

Re: 16H woes - valves

My engine was rebuilt in 1945 at a field station. I just shove in high melting point grease and let the resultant coagulated fummey mess lube the stems, and the crankcases..... Never had a problem though I think the clearances are pretty generous. I recently did the utterly brilliant Herefordshire Round the Edge. Running out of time I held the throttle wide open for nigh on 30 miles after being out all day. I'm now running a 19 engine sprocket and was holding normal road speeds in the admittedly slow moving Hereford main roads.
I take the view that low revving sidevalves, being built on OHV bottom ends, will tolerate this sort of behaviour. Back in the day my Matchless G80 didn't. I had to rebuild it every year. Unburstable it was not. Never had a problem with my M21 engines.

email (option): jeremy@clogmaker.co.uk

Re: 16H woes - valves

The extreme valve / guide problems seem to appear mostly on newly built engines...this may be down to component quality but it may also be that higher mileage engines have polished and work-hardened and quite possibly built up a protective later following use with leaded fuel - although the 16H was originally developed in an era when that wasn't the case.

The guides were supposed to be lubricated weekly or every 500 miles which doesn't seem often enough to keep up a decent supply of lubricant to me.

Re: 16H woes - valves

An engineer mate of mine told me a while back that all lead replacement stuff was utterly useless. Anyway these engines are pre lead, as is my M21 and my Series 1
However as the previous version of this engine didn't have valve nipples one can only suppose that Norton added them to address a problem.

email (option): jeremy@clogmaker.co.uk

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