Hmmm..When I organised a D Day tour it was stipulated beforehand in the tour details which people signed up to, that the bikes entered should be Allied Forces WW2 machines....A few people either through bloody mindedness or ignorance had a compulsion to join in on a couple of the runs on illegible machines even though they weren't part of what was an organised event.(Also sanctioned and approved by the Mayors Office in Arromanches)..They were approached at the time and both the error and the rules were pointed out......
It is my understanding that this year it wasn't an organised event, rather a loose gathering of like minded enthusiasts and to my knowledge there was no information circulated regarding machine eligibility beforehand...
If that was indeed the case then any views expressed about anything in that regard are purely personal I would have thought and perhaps should have been qualified as such...The presence of a TRW in those circumstances wouldn't have bothered me personally...
Don't forget the beach is a public place after all and without an organised event anyone can attend on any machine and get involved...
You plainly feel that your attendance and your intentions were entirely justified and therefore you should accept that the approach of the people involved in what you term, in a rather derogatory way, 'an olive drab fashion parade' must be acting in an equally valid way and are also expressing their commemoration as they choose to..
Perhaps this just serves to illustrate how easy it can be to be inappropriately judgemental...
Clearly, no one holds the high moral ground here and there is no 'right' and 'wrong' way to do things in Normandy...It's a purely personal choice...
On an 'organised' tour which people book onto before arriving in France, I would have thought it a common courtesy for those not 'booked on' to avoid being involved unless by specific invitation or after having approached the organisers first, but that's a whole different situation and another argument altogether...Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk
Hi Horror...Nice pics....and the Norton looks great...Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
Thanks Ian, I've got hundreds of pictures if anybody wants any from a particular place.
email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk
Well you were going to send me some of the little English Setter for Janet!! :disappointed: Ron
email (option): ronpier@talk21.com
I will do Ron, I've only just downloaded the pictures from mine and Wendy's phones to the PC.
My ancient computer won't work when I clicked the "reply" button on this site and I've had to go on my iPad to post these pictures. It's taken me over an hour to do on a touch screen device :sob:
email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk
Hi Everyone
It was a great trip and one I'm glad to have shared with my Son, we moved over to Utah on the 7th for a few nights after many left Matilde (and as it goes Rich also left his cap which we found on the floor) to what was effectively a field with one toilet and a shower, Seb said "Dad it was a shame we had to move I really liked where we were as I had loads of friends, they had cooked breakfast, pastries and a bar" he wasn't wrong on all counts..
Rich I've emailed you tonight and will post it once you send me your address
Lovely to see everyone again..
email (option): kit247@hotmail.com
Found in Longues sur mer battery
email (option): m606paz@yahoo.com.ar
That's Paul Fevyier and the 'NOBS' group. He does a nice job! Ron
email (option): ronpier@talk21.com
Great pictures Horror, I remember us all parking up on the nice new grey paving flags. We were there for around 10 minutes. Think the authority's would not be too happy with all the oil spots on the new flags after we left, some were a fair bit larger than a spot. Great riding and we fully enjoyed the full week, see if you can get some more pics loaded, I know its a pain but well worth it.:grinning:
Tim W
email (option): t.j.walker@btinternet.com
Another WNG found near Overlord Museum
email (option): m606paz@yahoo.com.ar
Longues Battery Camp
Arromanches
email (option): m606paz@yahoo.com.ar
Hi Ian, nice reply, thank you and we did question the group we came with (not yours) if they had any objection to me bringing the TRW and they said they didn't, so along it came. I had a wail of a time riding with my Bruv on his 3HW up and down the D514 and everywhere we went Fathers TRW got people asking after its origin, that's why the post on hear came as such a disappointing surprise. I did discover on the trip there's a certain way you guys who do this on a regular basis do things but I'm just an ex sqauddie who wanted to pay my respects who's ignorant of the protocol involved. Father has just purchased an Ariel W/NG to add to his collection and I will bring that in two years time and the 80th but whether I enjoy the ride as much as the tele/rigid combination of the TRW time will tell, after all, along with paying our respects it's why we were there weren't we, to ride? Not sure if I'll go to the trouble the majority I saw go to in getting all the period uniform, just the smock I wore when in the mob (yes it still fits) sufficed this time and probably will in future, wouldn't want to have the wrong buttons on my tunic. Mad Gunner.
A row of Landrovers and Humvees on the 6th would seem outside of the spirit of things too. Why bother to cherish and maintain a vehicle approaching eighty years old when something much more modern can do it all so much more easily ? Where should the line be drawn ? The implicit threat of violence as a reaction to any historical discussion or criticism does you no credit.
So yes, I was on the beach paying my respects, as I was at the service later in the afternoon and again the next morning at services for the DLI and 4th/7th Dragoon Guards in Lingèvres.
No fashion parade for me, although I did make sure that Dad's medals and cap badge were gleaming.
I should note that, unfortunately, I wasn't in attendance this year, though I know personally many of the motorcycle 'regulars' who travel to Normandy...
It is becoming progressively more complicated to organise a fully structured event due to the seemingly endless increase in rules, regulations and conditions and it may well be that a motorcycle event along those lines won't happen again...A shame really IMO but there is a limit to how much time a small group can spend on getting it all done and rolling...
The future I suspect, will become the more loosely structured events like this year and as such it just won't be possible to impose any particular character on any gatherings without an organising body of some type.....
However, it is a legitimate worry that the focus on the reasons for being in Normandy gets watered down over time...Last time I went to Normandy we visited St Mere Eglise and a modern Harley Club and Vintage Car Meeting figured rather too much in the events for my liking...I came away feeling it was turning into a bit of a circus...
So, there is a worry about the 'purity' of the proceedings and I guess some regard any deviation as the thin end of a potentially very large wedge...The problem is in divining exactly where is the line that should be defended....Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
Rik, the only threat of violence would have been from my tongue, seeing as I renounced all forms of physical violence some time ago, I do enjoy talking to rivet counters. Don't kick over the hornets nest if you don't want the come back fella, the people who ride military motorcycles is a small group and it was only a matter of time before this came to my attention. You clearly enjoyed putting up your original post for some sort of enjoyment, not sure what. I don't do forums for good reason, people say what they wouldn't say to someone's face but that's just the way of the world, so as far as I'm concerned it's an end to the matter to which I've had my right of reply and accept it or not. The bravery of those on that day is mind blowing and sincere respects to your Father.
I replied to a mention of a post-war bike having been excluded from the count on the Pegasus Bridge event by pointing out that there was also one on the beach at Arromanches and in a non-service colour which hardly seems to be taking rivet-counting to a new level. It would perhaps be stretching a point to say that I 'enjoyed' posting.
I'm always happy to discuss technical aspects with anyone, like seeing TRWs around and admire Edward Turner's headlamp nacelle. If the bike had been parked on the square, I'd probably just have said 'Nice Triumph' as I walked past. It was its presence in a line-up of WW2 vehicles on the beach which seemed incongruous and it doesn't seem to me to be unreasonable to discuss this aspect on a military vehicle forum with other enthusiasts.
Button-holing an owner with his machine at the time would compare with sending an e-mail and I wouldn't intrude. Posting on a forum is to my mind more like mentioning it in the pub afterwards.
I think that Ian is right when he says that some of us are concerned by specific WW2 military vehicle aspects becoming diluted. I do feel it would be a shame if it became a Land-Rover and Bombardier event (and I like Landies too...used an ex-MoD 109 as a wedding car). I wouldn't expect my '39 16H to be welcomed at a Great War event and could understand if some voiced concern about it at an Overlord event as it has BEF markings...The 30 Corps tour later this year certainly wouldn't welcome it. To my mind it's just one of those things and I don't feel we should be offended by events or parades having eligibility criteria.
I share some of the concerns identified...However, my contention is that as much as it might have been desired this event was not subject to any form of official sanction regarding machine criteria and was not a 'closed event' in terms of the participants.....As such that makes it very different to a specific event put on for a specific purpose for a limited group of participants...
The 30 Corps event plainly falls into the last category and isn't really the same thing as this years Normandy event....
I'm afraid we live in a world we cannot control beyond a specific event we choose to instigate....and even that isn't straightforward within a public environment as I found out on the 65th...Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
Ian, this wasn't the motorcyclist's Pegasus Bridge event but the WW2 MV gathering on Gold Beach on the morning of the 6th...or at least it was mentioned on the internet as such...I assume that someone regulated entrance to the beach and lined them up, otherwise they could just as easily have arrived and found the local 4x4 club there before them.
Ian, I arranged the motorcycle gathering at the Pegasus Bridge Museum this year and below you will see a copy of the invitation and instructions I posted on every WW2 related Facebook and forums I could find. I think I made it abundantly clear of which motorcycles were invited to attend. To my mind gaining entry on a clearly post was bike was not in the spirit of the event. We had someone on the gate checking all motorcycles arriving but still people persisted in gaining entry. Easily done when bikes were arriving 10 at a time. I was not at the gathering on the beach and cannot comment on what, if any, entry requirements there were. There are a number of different groups who go to Normandy from re-enactment groups who put a lot of effort into looking 100% correct to others like the NOBS who are very relaxed and make very few demands about what is required. Whilst I ride WD bikes I class myself as a motorcyclist and not a re-enactor and choose not to wear a uniform and therefore I do not attend events where dress requirements stipulate this. We should all do what we feel comfortable doing and respect the wishes of others in the events we attend. The most important thing is that we all agree it is about those who fought and died and saved the civilised world so that we have the freedom to make choices.
For those of you travelling to Normandy this year we are holding a gathering of WD Allied Motorcycles at the Pegasus Bridge Museum on the afternoon of 5th June. No Axis, post WW2 or civilian motorcycles will be permitted entry. Please make sure you DO NOT arrive before 13.15 as they are holding a ceremony before this time. We have very kind permission of the Curator to park our motorcycles on the grass between the rear of the museum and the original Pegasus Bridge.
I agree entirely with your sentiments regarding a clearly flagged and organised event...It seems entirely reasonable to me that the organiser of any event should have the final say when it comes to the criteria that determine who will be accepted to take part...Particularly so in the case of a 'closed' event...
As you are aware I wasn't in Normandy this time round but have the impression the gathering on the beach was essentially an open event..A different situation to that at Pegasus if that was the case...
It may be I have that wrong but if it was just a group of like minded people gathered together in a public place and not under the umbrella of some kind of organisation then any level of control would be impossible and a more open minded view must be employed....
I personally have no axe to grind in this case but, for discussion, I am only expressing my own view of both sides of the argument based on the original posting and the response to it...Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
I just wanted to say, two things, firstly riding whatever your comfortable with is fine by me, but if it was and organised WW2 WD machine only event ( which it wasn't ) then I could see why it was a problem, but it wasn't, so fair play for taking part.
Secondly however, a small group of WW2 military bike riders.........on the 2nd of June , there was 126 WW2 Harley Davidsons all together, on the 5th June, there was 60+ bikes for the Don Fife run, and on the 6th June Pegasus Bridge, 80+ bikes, I'm not sure about anyone else, but I'd say this was more than just a small group of WW2 military bikes personnel.
Ross W