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Another charging issue

My ammeter is showing full discharge with the lights on & engine running.
The lights haven't been used for the last several runs.
The dynamo is charging.
The battery is in good condition.
My question, before I start dismantling, is whether a fully charged battery can discharge like this for a period before the cut out functions & allows charging to take place?

Re: Another charging issue

Bob if you know that your dynamo is charging and that your battery is in good condition and fully charged???.....It only leaves your regulator to investigate. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: Another charging issue

Hi Ron
Yes, the regulator is the only thing to check now. What I was wondering, is do you think it's worth while running the battery down
a bit by using the lights to see if the (fairly new) regulator cuts in, or do you think the fact that it isn't charging now definitely indicates a problem?

Re: Another charging issue

You haven't said if you're using an original regulator or a modern solid state one. For instance some regulators like the AO (Allan Osborne) electronic regulators wont kick in to charge if your battery drops down to 5 volts or there about.

These are by far the best and the bloke is helpful and they will fit inside a gutted MCR1 housing and solder the wires to there respective positions inside and no one can tell the difference.:+1: Ron
http://dynamoregulators.com/dvr2.php

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: Another charging issue

Ron
Thanks for the replies.
I'm using an Indian made regulator that's essentially a copy of the Lucas item. It's a bit larger but has the same basic layout. These are common in Australia & have a reasonable reputation.This one's only a couple of years old. As far as performance characteristics go I think we could compare it to the Lucas product.

Re: Another charging issue

OK that's your problem! The Indian made replica MCR2's are absolute CRAP! I'm surprised that you've had 2 years use out of it. You're far better off installing one of those DVR2 electronic regulators and for an authentic look, inside a period MCR1 box. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: Another charging issue

Yep,
There is a lot of junk coming out of India now days.
Seen way too may of them fail.
If the bike has not been run for a while give all the sets of points a quick wipe with some 600 wet & dry saturated with WD 40 or similar.
There is some good stuff but unless you are local and know where it is coming from it is a bit of a gamble.

email (option): bsansw1@tpg.com.au

Re: Another charging issue

The Indian regulators don't have the bimetal strip that utilises differential expansion to automatically adjust the regulator as it warms up during operation...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: Another charging issue

A second vote here for the DVR2' I've used them on several bikes more many years.
The guy who owns the company is a BSAOC member and very helpful.

Re: Another charging issue

Well, it's morning here now & a miserable one it is. I'll try to find time to take the regulator off & see what I can do with it. Thanks for the thoughts folks.

Re: Another charging issue


And according to my tests the thing's buggered. I'm pissed off about that.Very. So I think we'll investigate solid state types. Ron, I take your opinion on board. Trevor, if you see this, what would you recommend from what's available in Oz?

Re: Another charging issue

I made the mistake of fitting a Wassel solid state unit last year for the BSA international as the MC1 was playing up and in any case it is the wrong regulator for E3L.
Neither Chris Zoch nor Peter Scott had any DV2's at the time so I bought the Wassell unit from Trojan.
Well it lasted for the first 2 rides and I had to disconnect it and run the Cyclons total discharge so I had stop lights for the remaining 2 rides.
By the time the rally was over Scotty had fresh stock so I rewired the dynamo back to standard & fitted the DVR2 but it did not work.
Pulled the dynamo off and it was totally stuffed, the rubbish Wassell unit had it running so hot the solder melted.

So my recommendations is a DVR2.
Peter Scott has them in stock as does Chris Zoch who has set up again up the coast.

You should be able to get one down there but under no circumstances fit the Wassell solid state unit .

It also blew the $ 45 LED headlamp globe.
This was no great worry because it was on of those Double dippers that produce no useable light unless you turn the reflector sideways about 45 degrees so I was going to toss it in any case and go back to a std globe.

email (option): bsansw1@tpg.com.au

Re: Another charging issue

Trevor
Thanks for the reply. I'll get onto the firms you recommend. For now it's daytime riding only. I don't ride much at night anyway because I live in Kangaroo Central, but it's good to have reliable lights on dull days.

Re: Another charging issue

Bob, which state are you in?

Re: Another charging issue

Matty
I live in South Australia. In the Adelaide Hills.

Re: Another charging issue

The DVR2's now arrived & the intention is to fit it inside a gutted MCR1 unit.
Googling around on an Ariel site I saw mention of fitting a different brand of electronic regulator in an MCR1 & it suggested removing the "eye" connecting the D terminal to the old regulator frame.
This connection won't do anything now, but is it worth the bother?

Re: Another charging issue

I'm not sure what you mean by remove the eye from the D terminal? Here's a spare one I did ages ago using an electronic regulator that I'm not fond of. I snipped the 4 wires and took away the mechanical regulator, just leaving the 4 solder terminals. Nowadays I usually also saw through the fiber base board just behind the terminals and remove that also. It not only creates more room, but adds a bit more cooling into the confined space. Ron
DSCF1674
DSCF1675

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: Another charging issue

A nice early-war 'Lead-Acid' base, Ron.

I've never seen any signs of overheating on my modern unit. Doesn't the Tufnol board have a locating function for the cover ?

This is one of the old Sean Hawker 'Dyno-Tec' units.

IMG-1242

For ease of servicing / any future replacement, I simply cleaned off the terminals and fitted mini-Lucar connectors to the wires.

Re: Another charging issue

Rik the cooling issue is mainly to do with my Indian special which is coil ignition and therefore the charging system is working harder. The AO units as the one in my pictures have let me down more than once on my special.....Hence this one sits on a shelf.

The inherent problem with the AO unit, is that when your battery level drops below 5 point something volts, the bloody things won't kick in. So you have to bring the level up with either a slave battery or charger. (Which is why I always carry a spare cyclon battery and a pair of leads when I ride my special). I'm sure that Al Osborne has had enough complaints about it by now, but still seems reluctant to address the issue.

The DVR2's don't have this problem. Also the DVR2 doesn't have cooling fins like the AO unit so maybe my efforts at adding more room for cooling are unwarranted. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: Another charging issue

Ron
In mentioning the "eye" I was quoting the website. What it refers to is the extension from the D terminal that runs under the Tufnol base & connects to the metal frame of the regulator unit with a screw. It won't do anything with the new regulator in but I was thinking removing it would mean one more repair should any soul ever be brave enough to restore the unit to original.

I've dry mounted the new unit on the Tufnol base, drilling a new mounting hole. While the DVR2 fits well enough, I'm wondering whether to route the wires to give them a bit of length & give, or whether to use the shortest route possible between the regulator & the terminals on the base.

Re: Another charging issue

Well you can see how mine and Rik's is. Leaving the wire longer than necessary is pointless. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: Another charging issue

[Also the DVR2 doesn't have cooling fins like the AO unit so maybe my efforts at adding more room for cooling are unwarranted..]

Yes, the DVR2 requires neither a heat sink or an airflow to keep it cool...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: Another charging issue

Ron, the Ariel site shows a unit quite similar to the one you've shown here & don't like much. The wires are neatly looped over the top & the writer mentions fatigue failure, presumably from vibration. But with the DVR2 they can be quite short.

One other thing, do people who've fitted the DVR2s in the MCR1 cases secure the 5mm nut on the unit's mounting spigot with anything once it's been tightened up? It looks like it might work loose. One way to find out, I suppose.

Re: Another charging issue

As far as I know Lucas still manufacture the RB108 unit which I have fitted on my '43 WM albeit with the alli crimped on cover removed and the old type brass cover with wire clip fitted. Typical DEAF wiring order. Or find an old one and get it fetled by someone who repairs dynamos, the two often go together.

email (option): roy.speake@yahoo.com

Re: Another charging issue

Lucas went to the wall years ago! I think Wassell's took over the 'Lucas' trade name, but a lot of their parts in green Lucas boxes are foreign made. The brass top will only be from a post war MCR2 regulator. The correct war-time MCR1 only had steel lids.

The typical wiring order should read FADE. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: Another charging issue

Lucas still exists as a company but has licensed much of its production to multiple suppliers via multiple licensees so it's hard to discover exactly where parts are actually manufactured without going into it in detail...
Motorcycle bulbs for example are licenced to a UK manufacturing company in Birmingham but as well as many companies in the UK there are facilities worldwide supplying multiple related products...

The licensee for classic motorcycle electrical parts appears to be Wassells but they aren't a manufacturer so a further search would be needed to find the origin of the different parts...For economic manufacture the usual suspects are probably involved in many products....India, Taiwan, China and probably others...

One comment I would make is that the Lucas badged rear lights are a much better product than the Indian replicas commonly seen (and also marketed by Wassell..) From my experience parts manufactured in Taiwan are usually pretty good and it wouldn't surprise me if production of at least some Lucas badged parts is carried out there....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: Another charging issue

The DVR2's got everything nice & bright again, but in doing the work I found some poor connections that had initially tested OK for continuity. I'm now not sure if my testing of the Indian replica of an MCR1 regulator was correct. So while it's off the bike, are there any tests I can do? Using a multimeter the internal circuitry checks out, as I understand it.

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