Hi all , please can anyone help as to what if any tyre pressure marking may have been used on wartime m20,S
Have a Harley wla and the US never put tyre pressure on mudguards till after the war!
If m20 did have markungs was it stencilled or just a squaddie hand painted ??
Many thanks
Simon
email (option): Simonsuzanne@hotmail.co.uk
There are a few rare photographic examples of it being done in wartime, presumably at unit level but in general, there do not seem to have been instructions for it and it was not at all common. It's a bit like universal pouches strapped to the forks. If you look hard enough you'll find a photograph to show that someone did it...but if you want to portray the norm rather than the exception and don't wish to over-gild the lily (Did I just compare an M20 with a lily ?:astonished: ) then better to avoid. If however, you wish to portray a particular late-war scene and have evidence then it's possible.
With any painted lettering of this period, we need to bear in mind that 'signwriter' was a common trade and most units had a number of men who could paint neatly.
Under about five coats of brushed on post war glossy bronze green I found a neatly lettered 18 on the front mudguard. This was on the last coat of paint before the primer. Obviously done by someone that knew his trade the numbers are about 5/8" high. I reproduced this using a white paint pen & it looks good. Did not find any marking on the rear mudguard other than a badly stenciled 25 on the post war green. The bike is a 44 M20 frame & engine 101461 tank number C5212161. I also found a piled arms transfer under all that paint on the headstock. Why they would bother I have no idea, you can`t see it behind the spring & headlamp.
Sorry not for an M20 but I have a very clear photo of 2 Matchless G3L’s next to each other taken just before D Day . One has TP 22 painted on the front mudguard and the other has TP 18 in the same place on the front guard. So do what you like and no one can say you are wrong.
As I said, John. Late-war, occasional and specific units.
Obviously, owners have the complete freedom to do whatever they want with their own vehicles but if we value them in a historical context, surely we should either portray the norm or otherwise specific documented variations. Both are valid...but standard 1950s / National Service practice is an easy trap to fall into (unless intended...and there is a good case for portraying Cold War as well)
Thanks so much you guys, think now I’ll leave it off the mudguards ,
And so know what you mean rik as my Harley Wla is sadly done up with way to much luggage lol cheers fellas hope to bump into yer in normandy
One of the M.20s I had some years ago had the tyre pressures stencilled in white paint on the top of the steering damper knob which is the only time I have seen that. When I sold the bike I replaced the steering damper knob with a plain one thus retaining this rather unusual example.
email (option): keithchandler@clistandchandler.co.uk
Obviously, owners have the complete freedom to do whatever they want with their own vehicles but if we value them in a historical context, surely we should either portray the norm or otherwise specific documented variations. Both are valid...but standard 1950s / National Service practice is an easy trap to fall into (unless intended...and there is a good case for portraying Cold War as well)
I have an ex WD M20 WM20-78096 with matching engine & frame numbers so assumed to be an unused bike sold surplus post war.
It was fitted with a 350 Empire Star tank & wheels + a flip up rear guard, plus a bit of chrome work.
I am the 3rd owner & all of the mods were done by the first owner.
This bike like many thousands of M20's was the first owners daily transport.
So it has a history far more authentic that slapping some matt green paint on it and an insignia of a company that it was never despatched to for a war it took no part in.
A lot of WM 20s spent 50 years in civilian hands as compared from 1 to 4 in military service so as last ridden is far more AUTHENTIC than in military drab.
As ridden for 50 years, taking dad to work, the family on holidays, used by the kids to learn how to ride on till it no longer was safe or convinent to ride in modern traffic.
By your logic, none of us would be "authentic" unless we were on our backsides wearing a nappy as we were originally made.
The actual used history of the bike is far far more important than playing pretend soldiers.
Now if an owner want to play pretend soldiers and repaint their bike in military drab then it is only Authentic, if it wears the colours & fitments of the original recipiants other wise it is just as fake as a 55 model tarted down to military appearance.
Now what you do with your bike is your decision and your decision alone but don't start playing the "not authentic " card because almost no current WM20 is.
email (option): bsansw1@tpg.com.au
'Playing soldiers' is a rather derogatory description IMO that doesn't reflect the situation and makes unpleasant assumptions about peoples motives...
As I've repeated in previous posts the 'history' of a bike is an on going thing and ultimately it is up to the individual which part of that history they choose to select when considering the bikes visual specification..What they choose will also become part of that on going history....
There is no right and no wrong and no specification has any more validity than the rest unless viewed from a particular standpoint...Everyone is entitled to their own view of the world but it's best, and not right, to expect everyone else to go along with it to the letter...
Even if an M20 did see war service it has seen a lot of later history as well and that can be represented as 'real' just as much as any other time in it's history...In fact, the way a bike is presented generally reflects the owners interests/bias as much as anything...
This forum is pretty much driven by the desire to preserve and represent military motorcycles in (one of) their possible military specification(s) and as such discussion mainly revolves around that...I think we all have to accept though, that the desire to achieve that absolutely accurately, even with an interest in the subject, includes a wide degree of variation between people...'Different strokes for different folks' and all that...Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
Quite right Ian.
We are in fact on the same page.
The objection was to the assertion that an M20's history can only be of "Value" to use Ricks own words if it is finished in military trim.
My B40 is still in it's military trim, complete with the 2AIF insignia and Signals patch.
This is how I got it from the army & how it has stayed apart from removing the despatch case & fitting a second pannier rack.
email (option): bsansw1@tpg.com.au
Trevo wrote:
"....The actual used history of the bike is far far more important than playing pretend soldiers.
Now if an owner want to play pretend soldiers and repaint their bike in military drab then it is only Authentic, if it wears the colours & fitments of the original recipiants other wise it is just as fake as a 55 model tarted down to military appearance...."
My 1942 M20 is a rivet counters delight; a hotchpotch of NOS and used parts, some perhaps period-correct,, and some newly made, such as a 15-spring clutch and a carrier frame but no metric nuts and bolts on a Britbike.
However, she is dear to me, because for me it is a memory of those happy days, when I as a 12 year old boy I saw that reconnaissance squad of the West Riding Division enter Amsterdam, May 7th, with those Polar Bears on their vehicles. And that’s the reason why I have painted that Polar Bear on the tank. When I participated in commemoration rides, notably Normandy, and Wageningen I dressed in green overalls to blend in with the other riders, with no attempt to copy a period-correct uniform. So no soldier-playing for me, because out of respect for the real soldiers of that glorious day. However, that is a purely personal feeling, I can appreciate those youngsters who try to dress in painstakingly correct uniforms; perhaps fortunately, they were not there, but I was, so let me be happy with my memories, and a bike that is certainly not period-correct....
Hans
Trevor, go back and look at the thread from the beginning.
In the first place, the message board is The WD Motorcycle Forum and the OP's question was based on wartime use.
I replied to a further comment which suggested;- "...do what you like and no one can say you are wrong" which I disagreed with, for the reasons that I gave.
I didn't state "that an M20's history can only be of "Value" if it is finished in military trim." - You are completely miss-quoting me there. Working on the not-unreasonable understanding that Simon's bike is finished in military trim and that he wished to make the portrayal as accurate as possible, I made the comment that began "...if we value them in a historical context..." that is to say, the machines restored in 'military' trim.
It is quite clear that I wasn't making any reference to ex-WD machines in civilian trim at all. I've stated a number of times that I like to see these ride-to-work machines of the 1950s.
I know that you don't like rivet-counting on WD motorcycles. I understand that you don't 'get' the whole thing of restoring a wartime machine to as close as possible to its service condition - in which case why not just leave the discussion to those who are interested rather than starting a slanging match. ?