Nou, omdat ik het best leuk vind ! :grinning:

Are you sure he's Dutch ?
What's the number on the front mudguard then, a "provincieplaat?"

Although he's not wearing clogs I'm pretty sure he's Dutch!
:flag-nl: :flag-nl: :flag-nl: :smile:

email (option): wd.register(at)gmail.com

Sure enough this happy looking chap is Dutch. The numberplate starting with N is indeed a ‘provincieplaat’ or licence plate from the province of Noord-Brabant, Netherlands and was issued in 1939 to the ‘Eerste Wielrijders Regiment’ or First Cyclists Regiment. Despite its name this infantry unit of the Dutch Army also used motorcycles and even for a short period Morris trucks.

The ‘Eerste Wielrijders Regiment’ was formed March 1, 1939 and stationed in Den Bosch, Noord-Brabant. This particular licence number N 53087 was revoked in 1940, probably in or shortly after May 1940 when the rolling stock of the defeated Dutch Army was confiscated by the German occupying forces.

During the period between March 1939 and May 1940 this particular regiment was part of the defence force in the ‘Peel-Raam’ position. The sandy environment in this picture does indeed remind of the ‘Peel’, in those days a rather infertile, barren piece of land, while the single shrub with leaves in the background could indicate that the picture was taken during the summer or autumn period of 1939.

Apparently the dome on the primary chaincase is dented, but apart from that this particular machine looks to be in good condition and relatively new.
Cannot find it my copy of O&M, but do we know when BSA delivered the pre-war Dutch Army contract(s)?

MaxF

Deliveries of KM20/21s to 'Staatsbedrijf der Artillerie, The Hague' seem to have commenced in January 1939 and continued (as WMs) right up until the fall of The Netherlands. At a guess, I'd say that to start with, they were a larger customer (as was Ireland) than the British War Office.

If you can turn up the frame number from the registration records then an exact despatch date should be possible.

Was the Germanic Denfeld-like pillion a standard fitment ?

Max I applaud your knowledge on this subject, is this a particular period or area that you are interested in?

My own simple input is that I notice the bike is fitted with a NiFe battery and that pillion seat is obviously a local fitment. Can't say I've noticed them on other Dutch M20's?

He does look like you Rik.....You just need to smile more often:smile: Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Here two photos of Jacques Gramser's Dutch Army BSA. I am pretty sure this bike is 100% accurate including the pillion seat.

Henk

email (option): ahum@quicknet.nl

Thanks Henk. I guess that the pillion seat bolted to the carrier and the leather pannier must have been added on in Holland? Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

The pillion seat on the M20 from Jacques is not the right one. He could not find the right one for a while, but he has found one a few months ago. The right type of pillion seat was made by the German company GEFRAG and had an Drilastic cover. I have found 2 of those pillion seats in the last 3 weeks, I have 1 for sale at the moment.

These pillion seats where available for private purchase in the pre war years. The Dutch Army had ordered them for use on the BSA M20/21 and G14. The Dutch delivered pillionseats had a stamp on the frame indicating that they where delivered to the Netherlands.

I am now in the process of collecting all the parts to build an Dutch Army BSA WM21. The challenge is that a lot of hard to find parts are necessary to build a correct Dutch Army M21. JOB helped me to locate a correct handgearchange paneltank last week, by far the most difficult part (except for the front mudguard).

Jacques is a great help for me with providing information.

Regards,
Bastiaan

email (option): wdmotorcycles@gmail.com

I have never found information in the pre-1951 ledgers about vehicles, not even the manufacturers name.
Up to 1951 a licence number in the Netherlands was granted on provincial level to either an institute, company or person. So when an owner sold his car or motorcycle and bought another one, he just mounted the old plates onto the new vehicle, or had ‘his’ number painted on it.
The only thing that was of interest to the authorities was the owners name and address, most likely because of tax collection. Hence the ledgers also contain the date of application and date the number was revoked.

Ron, I am afraid I only have a general interest in the subject, nothing particular though. But having a some sort of fetish for numbers I guess I was just carried away a bit, again…

Is the rider wearing spurs? Is that a way to make these old war horses go faster? :yum:
I'm guessing it is a vestigial item from cavalry days?

email (option): cas.vanderwoude@gmail.com

It's got one of those nice little side stands as well. No good in the field but great for a petrol station forecourt.

Tim W

email (option): t.j.walker@btinternet.com

Henk, the motorcycle is still not complete and I am learning everyday about the specific Dutch additions to the BSA. The leather bag itself is not Dutch military, this should be a different bag often used by Dutch military cyclists. As Bastiaan mentioned I have found the right duoseat (Gefrag) and changed this. Also the toolbox should be the narrow one, still trying to find a good one for this.
The mirror used by the Dutch is also different from the one used on this motorcycle. Still have to improve some details but getting there. The G14 project is also getting along, now working on the military sidecar.

email (option): Jacgramser@gmail.com