But if they come across a military finished bike with a 1945 ( or latter ) number they scream out "FAKE" at the top of their lungs.']
I have long held the view there is an unbalanced concentration on the WW2 period...Personally, I've never seen a WD bike presented in its pre war livery and it is pretty rare to see them presented in post war livery either...Many served in a variety of locations (and conflicts) after WW2 and this was as much part of their past as the wartime period was...
I'm still hoping at some point to purchase a very nice M20 that is in my locality and is in the markings of a BAOR Provost unit, the markings of the unit the current owner served in...If I do get it I certainly won't be repainting it in 'drab' WW2 finishes...Ian
At an Anzac Day parade down in Albury there were 2 WM20's with vets riding pillion at the head of the Korean War Vets.
They were both decked out as Signals bikes ( so I was told ) .
However I have never seen one since and every WM20 I come across is decked out in WWII colours usually with a long blurb of its supposed service history ( most of which I would suspect are total fabrications ).
email (option): bsansw1@tpg.com.au
Hi Marty,
There is quite a good picture of a 1942 bike in the Technical section, electrical equipment of this website. Sensusnumber of this bike starts with 4552..... It still has got the horn underneath the saddle so I guess it is an early 1942 model.
Regards, Ramon 😎😎
Hi Marty,
There is quite a good picture of a 1942 bike in the Technical section, electrical equipment of this website. Sensusnumber of this bike starts with 4552..... It still has got the horn underneath the saddle so I guess it is an early 1942 model.
Regards, Ramon 😎😎
Matty
Thanks for your thoughts about my matching numbers. Should this be the case & considering the bike's condition when I got it, I suspect that it was sold to one uncaring owner who hammered it thoroughly before chucking it in the back of the shed or something. The head had a few stumps where fins had once been,& it's had forks from another bike fitted at one stage, the longer ones as discussed on this forum some time back & had the remains of a green colour on the tank (not military green).
I suspect its all down to numbers, down under a machine came in for repair and it was the only BSA needing work so it was fixed and sent out again.
In the UK a quantity of BSAs all arrived every day and a production line of repair was set up with one team removing engines another fixing them and yet another fitting the first available engine into the machine with the top priority.
Rob
What we did get down here was a massive number of unused M20's sold at "auction" for £ 10 as military surplus.
Some had quite low numbers.
Mine is 78096, matching numbers bought brand new surplus stock, the person I bought it off was the 2nd owner .
Now here is the interesting bit.
It is not listed in the legers that the war memorial has put on line.
Further more I have come across several others that are not there either so me thinks either BSA or the Dep of Supply shipped them over here to sell in order to raise desperately needed foreign exchange.
Remember post WWII most of the dairy other than fresh milk consummed in the UK and a lot of the dried milk consummed in Europe came from OZ & NZ and it had to be paid for some how.
Then there was the wool , wheat & mutton.
For while we had a neighbour who was born in Hambourg and she clearly remembers all of the dried milk containers having little Aussie flags on them, and after she saw her first real orange also with an Aussie flag on it she decided this was the place to be and became a stow away to get here.
The UK government reniged on the deal & never paid us for any armourments , small arms or ammo we shipped to the UK and we shipped a bloody lot of it so the Aust government was not in a mood to extend the UK credit for food & fiber
email (option): bsansw1@tpg.com.au
Wow, you guys have quite an amount of information! Love it.
It amuses me to read that there are 'so many M20's in Australia', and yet, finding parts or, even entire bikes is like looking for a needle in a haystack.
In response to 'restoring to original WW2 livery true to it's history', well, I guess I come under that brand, however, in my neck of the woods, and on my 'old bike rally circuit', there are NO military bikes that get out and about, and so I wanted to build one, and get it out there with my Matchless, to enjoy. I know nothing of its service history, and as the Australian military forces saw fit, all documents of such history were destroyed many moons ago. I'm not a nut and bolt counter, however, I just wanted my bike to be as close as practicable to how it was delivered, for my enjoyment. No other reason.
I'm guessing the perceived overzealous focus on WW2 bikes (certainly not something I see in QLD in Australia) is only due to availability. The exact reason I am doing a WM20 with my limited abilities. A great debate guys! :) Loving all the information :)
email (option): marty.whyte@gmail.com
Marty, it's your bike to do exactly as you want with. If you like the look of a catalogue finish then go for it. My view is that it's a good starting point and it can then age gracefully. I like to keep them 'in period' and my personal niggles are modern pattern bright-chromed handlebar levers and visible pre-insulated electrical connectors.
It's become fashionable of late to slag 'rivet-counters' and worship any form of scruffiness as 'patina'.
Have you checked your numbers through the ARN record books ? You have a damned sight more to go on than in most parts of the world. The books though do only include army registrations and there seem to be no surviving RAAF or RAN records...nor will there be any for governmental organisations which may have received transport as 'essential users'....Fire Brigades etc. in the UK.
If you get the basics right, the details can be changed later - my 16H project took six years of parts hunting and didn't stop then :relaxed:
WDM20s are not uncommon but that doesn't mean there are a lot about. Most people hang on to them and the same goes for spares. If you're planning a long term relationship then you have to buy parts as they become available. You're already on the old bike scene so you'll be aware that it's necessary to become 'known' as looking for stuff and it helps to have NOS parts to swap - often better than offering to buy parts as most of the old buggers with these luxury machines aren't short of a bob or two.:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
Hi Marty,
Jeff Gordon that is on the forum lives near Brissie. He owns a WDM20 and is in the Military Jeep Club Of Queensland and is on Facebook. Worth a try.
Dave
email (option): jeepfinger@blueyonder.co.uk
Hi Rik,
Thanks for the links to photos above! Great stuff.
I totally agree about the rivet counters and patina lovers. Fashions in any hobby/industry come and go. Personally not a huge fan of OWNING a rusty old bike covered in WD40 that runs. Also, not a huge fan of OWNING a concourse bike. I ride my bikes in rally's regularily and love enjoying them. I have just about finished my engine and paint 're-restoration' after buying a 'restored' Matchless. Got the painted tank, oil tank and toolbox back this week, and am now not sure if I want to ride it! ahahaha. Looks too pretty. Where as my other Matchless, looks very presentable, but has stone chips, a bit of oil build up in hard to get to areas, and, I just had to pull the motor apart in the paddock at a rally on the weekend, to fix a stuck top ring, scored bore and blown head gasket, with minimal tools, including wet and dry, a leatherman, and my usual kit of sockets and spanners. Put it back together with no gasket goo, and rode another 100 miles on Sunday.! I'd rather do that and enjoy the bike than have a concourse any day... but that's just me.
Yes, I have been through the Aust. War Memorial records with my bike tank number. Got what I can, and the guys on here have helped out with much more information. I've got a lot more than what I initially thought possible, including the connote for the delivery to OZ, and the original dispatch records from pommy land. Alas, seems that finding out its 'actual service history' as in, if my bike had left the training camp, or had been overseas, or saw a day of battle? I doubt I'd ever be able to find that out.
And yes, I'm learning about being 'known'. Funny how many of the old guys who didn't used to talk to me at the rallies, now do, as they witnessed first hand that I knew how to rebuild my engine in the field. ahahahah. Gained a few friends last weekend.
email (option): marty.whyte@gmail.com
Marty.
"It amuses me to read that there are 'so many M20's in Australia', and yet, finding parts or, even entire bikes is like looking for a needle in a haystack".
G'day Marty,
Back in the '50's the Beanham brothers (Allparts) bought acres of M20 army surplus and as of a month or two ago you could walk into Modak in Melbourne and buy engine, gearbox parts or odds and ends over the counter, (For years an M20 cylinder was used to hold the front door open). The hardest thing to get in Aust is good tin ware. David one of the sons still runs the business but closed the doors to the shop the other month but from all accounts will still answer the phone for mail orders.
https://www.pressreader.com/australia/old-bike-australasia/20160804/281719793948004
There's also Bill Green in NSW and while I've not purchased from him seems to have a lot of M20 parts for sale. Don't have a contact, sorry.
"It amuses me to read that there are 'so many M20's in Australia', and yet, finding parts or, even entire bikes is like looking for a needle in a haystack".
G'day Marty,
Back in the '50's the Beanham brothers (Allparts) bought acres of M20 army surplus and as of a month or two ago you could walk into Modak in Melbourne and buy engine, gearbox parts or odds and ends over the counter, (For years an M20 cylinder was used to hold the front door open). The hardest thing to get in Aust is good tin ware. David one of the sons still runs the business but closed the doors to the shop the other month but from all accounts will still answer the phone for mail orders.
https://www.pressreader.com/australia/old-bike-australasia/20160804/281719793948004
There's also Bill Green in NSW and while I've not purchased from him seems to have a lot of M20 parts for sale. Don't have a contact, sorry.
0419280650
or Box 750 Kellyville 2155.
He deals mainly in NOS & pattern engine parts , cables etc as he now runs it out of a suburban single garage.
As for the lack of availability of tinwear, why are you suprised ?
As mentioned earlier , my WM20 was civilanized back in the 40's.
The war was over and we really did not need to be reminded of it.
Also we did not need to ride around on a bike that was both obsolete and screamed "PAUPER" as you rode down the road.
Then there were all the small equipment makers who bought them by the hundreds, stripped the engines out and sold off what was left over, mainly to Mr Sims who became the worlds largest scrap merchants once we were allowed to sell scrap to Japan again.
Have a chat to Bill and he will happily tell you stories of buying all the military tin wear of owners in the 60s & 70s so they could fit pretty civy tinwear on them and latter on selling the same people back the military tin wear when it became "fashionable" to have a military bike mainly 90 onwards when the bad taste of Vietnam had finally dissipated.
Naturally he only kept the good stuff & scrapped all the stuff that had seen better days.
Farmers bought WM20's by the dozens and again stripped the engines out to run pumps, 32V generators , portable shearing sets, bench saws, etc tec tec.
Fifty years latter, the frames turn up at clearing sales , go for a song then the quest for the rest of the bits starts.
Seen a lot of barrows and "house trailers" proudly running on WM20 wheels .
The local market gardener had a stack of barrows running on motorcycle wheels and you could bet they were WM20 ones.
email (option): bsansw1@tpg.com.au
Thanks Trevor and all.
I've been in contact with Bill Green. Super nice fella. No doubt will be talking to him and a couple of other contacts quite a lot in the near future! :)
email (option): marty.whyte@gmail.com