Hi all,
Whilst researching is getting deeper, I'm finding it hard to 'google' much information about Australian military motorcycles during the WW2. Does anyone know of a historic Military motorcycle club or something? There is a Jeep club, which has some motorcycles in it, but you have to be a member to be able to talk to them!

Also, does anyone know what the actual paint colour is that the Australians used for their military WW2 WM20 motorcycles and corresponding scheme details? As in, was engine, gearbox, all painted green? Barrel black? etc...

Having a ball researching this stuff... Thank the lord for the internet... it's a great source!
Cheers.

email (option): marty.whyte@gmail.com

Marty if you are in Perth there is a company on Balcatta that does all the Australian military drab colours.
The're pretty helpful so may be able to mail you something if your not.
I've got a couple of photos in my phone of a colour I had picked out for mine and will post later if you like.

email (option): meck04@bigpond.com

It's clear from photographic evidence that the larger deliveries of M20s were from British Army stocks at RAOC Chilwell. They were thus in the standard British colour for the period and dsplaying a British WD serial number - therefore according to period, Khaki Green No.3 or SCC No.2 Brown (Very late-war deliveries could have been Olive Drab). It is therefore necessary to look at each machine individually.

These were new motorcycles and delivered ex-works with bright clean castings and plated parts - they were not overpainted unless this was done in theatre or at the time of a rebuild.

Australia over-painted the serial numbers before issue but any other painting would have depended upon local practice.

The 'Maple Leaf Up' forum has a couple of threads on Australian camouflage and markings - it's a complicated business due to the variation and remoteness even within Australia itself, let alone vehicles due to be sent into theatre.

The only correct way to deal with this is work from the basis of the individual machine. The AWM records may give you an idea where it saw service or you might decide to choose for yourself but you'll then need to research that unit to find out when and where they used particular colours and even if something as insignificant as a motorcycle would have been repainted at all.

Thank you Mark. Balcatta paint and panel? Autopower Car paint centre? Cheers for the info. I'm on the Gold Coast, but yes, the information is very helpful.

Rik, Thank you for the information. Where do you guys source this information? I've had a look on the War Memorial site, and can't find much at all! Just a couple of poor quality photos with personelle sitting on a motorcycle or such.

Cheers. :)

email (option): marty.whyte@gmail.com

Don't worry Marty, some of us barely have a normal social life anymore and spend most of the year plotting trips to archives...or if they're in Australia, inciting others to follow the same slippery slope towards obsession..

The AWM ledgers are now on-line which is a wonderful resource.

https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C1424610

http://pub37.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=3155626639&frmid=16&msgid=1375211&cmd=show

Have a word with someone like Rob Elliott who has a rare Australian contract Norton and has done a lot of research into them...the information is out there...but the specifics show that it is dangerous to generalise which is why you have to find yourself a WD motorcycle first :-)

Yes Autopower Car paint Centre.
I don't know whether it is the correct colour or not but I've picked out the Medium Olive drab for mine when the time comes.
First and second pics.
Apparently the matting agent they add to make it drab is pretty expensive so 2 litres will be about $200. I'm not sure how much you will need for an M20 but might be more. I'm sure someone will be able to advise you.

email (option): mfarnay@bigpond.net.au

Here we go down the rabbit hole.
I can offer little help other than noting every ex army M20 I have see at a surplus auction was over painted.
However if that was done in 1940 or 1970 is any ones guess.

All of the engines were over painted in that thick heat proof silver frost that leaves streaks of the dark brown base laquer in the finish.
Some had all usually chromed parts done in the same finish.
They all had rubber handlebar grips. And some had leather saddle bags.

Of course this is how they finished their service life before they go shoved into a warehouse to be forgotten for decades.

This is no contrast to the B 40's sold in the 80's
They were nearly all still wearing the original specification fully vitrified olive enamel which is near impossible to remove .
Again the same silver frost on all bare alloy parts, handlebars, levers & head lamp rims.
The only ones that were different were roughly over painted by a broad brush ( lots of runs ) and bore either signals or RAME patches.

The good news is there is quite a few unmolested by modern "do - gooders" to be found in various district museums.
Bad news is hey are never properly catalogued and few have any searchable reference other than a face book page.
So a good excuse for some weekend drives.

You just missed a big sale at Cowra.
There was pallets of original DOD paint but if the colour was still good after 60+ years is any bodies guess.

What I do recall was a pair of jeep owners next to us at a club display at the old Gosford military museum.
Both had Jeeps both supposedly repainted with original WW II paint and both slightly different colours.
Much rivalery between them and by the end of the day they were at each other with tyre irons & crank handles .

Check all of the local reigments to see if any of them have a museum.
Fairly sure there is an original unrestored WM20 at the Singleton ( NSW ) infantry Museum.
There are a couple of WM20's at the Tank museum on the base at Puckapunyal Army base in Victoria.
It is only open to the public a couple of days a year, but if you request access for research you can generally get in at other times after appropriate security clearences.
If you go on a public open day you will still need a security clearence and allow a lot of time.
Last time I went they took about an hour to process us and it is a time bandit.

The National Motorcycle museum at Nabiac NSW also has an unmolested WM 20 ( from memory )

email (option): bsansw1@tpg.com.au

Hi Marty,

As Rik said, I’m happy to help out with information on Australian delivered WD16H Nortons (that’s the limit of my detailed knowledge though I’m afraid).

Paint colour is a tricky subject! I have access to another Australian delivered Norton from 1940 which is still in its original paint, however, the colour appears different where it wasn’t exposed to the sun (under the kneepad for example), see photo.





Here’s where the problem lies, do you try and colour match to the exposed paint or the unexposed paint? One might be tempted to match to the unexposed paint as a more “pristine” example, but I’ve seen white enamel paint yellow over time when it’s not exposed to light (strange but true). So has the green paint on the tank under the kneepad yellowed with age also?





The other photo shows my petrol tank, which was painted around 1980, with an original paint early Vokes filter bolted to it which I obtained from Europe recently. The two colours are distinctly different. My tank was painted using an Australian Army colour of the time, but from Mark’s post it seems that at any point in time there are different military drab colours possible – and who can say whether current military colours are the same as 1940 ones (almost certainly not).

It would be good to know what the Norton factory used in 1940 and whether there is an equivalent modern colour code.

Sorry I just raise more questions – but that’s the way it goes with this obsession!

email (option): robert.g.elliott@gmail.com

hehehe. Awesome. All good information. Thanks all :) It's beginning to look a lot like "paint it in the period colour you like' kind of deal, as quite the veritable mine field is correctness of paint colours!

I do like the more 'olive green' (left hand colour bottom photo of Mark's post) rather than the'browns', but, as close to how it is supposed to be would be good. I've got a fair bit of time before I need to decide on paint, so research is key! :)

email (option): marty.whyte@gmail.com

Marty.
Here is a fact.
No matter what colour you paint it ever where you go there will be some self important moron who will happily tell you the colour is wrong and he KNOW because his brothers cousin's uncle 3 times removed rode one during WWII , And furthermore he will tell you this in a voice loud enough to be heard by every one within a 1/2 mile radius .
You respond to him by telling him the petrol tank was original NOS wrapped in cloth covered with cosmoline your grandfather bought from an old quartermaster just in case he dented the tank on his army surplus WM20 he rode till he was 80 when he passed it down to your father who passed it down to you.
AS you had an original NOS never used or exposed to the atmosphere petrol tank, you had the rest of the bike painted to match by the Keen brothers who spent 2 years making up a perfect match and charged you $ 2000 for the paint.
Make sure you answer him in a voice loud enough for every one within a 1 mile radius to hear and watch him slink away.

email (option): bsansw1@tpg.com.au

Love it Trevor... Personal experience? I've only been in the 'old bike scene' a few years and have 2 Matchless', and yes, although most people at rallies, are just happy to talk to you about your steed, there is always the one that you can see snickering to his mate about something and pointing... and .... sometimes loudly!

email (option): marty.whyte@gmail.com

Ken Thompson was our oldest rider and still rode the 1950 A10 he bought new from Burling & Stevens in April 1950 from the very first batch imported into Australia.
Ken liked to do statics and was very proud of his bike which he refurbished exactly as it was with the exception of the pinlining.

Without fail some jerk did as mentioned above.
They would ask him how long have you had the bike to which he would answer. a fair while.
When they were finished he would pull the purchase receipt out of his wallet and watch them dissolve into a pool of slime and slither off to annoy some one else.
And even funnier was not a one commented upon the fact that the pin lines were the wrong colour, Experts eh.

It is your bike so paint it the shade of kahaki that you find appealing to your eye.

email (option): bsansw1@tpg.com.au