Hello
Long time since I've enquired/commented on the forum , but always reading the topics :).
I have been for a while on the look out for a Norton 16H but as one would expect no success ,they seem to be the rare beast among the WD bikes , so at the moment I think it may be wise looking for WM20 or Matchless until one appears out of the woodwork :slightly_smiling_face: .I have been looking at Stuart Bray's website and there seems to be a selection but not being totally conversant with the WD bike side of things wasn't sure of which is a good buy ? http://www.stuart-bray-motorcycles.co.uk/military-bikes.html ......there are a 2/3 bikes on the site that look to be in good condition or does anyone know of any nice machines that are coming up for sale in the near future
NB
I have found this ... www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1942-NORTON-16H-500-EX-WD-BRITISH-CLASSIC-WW2-EXCELLENT-RUNNER/162805543616?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
The big question is would anyone buy this and put it back to WD trim :), I'm waiting for the ARRRGH NOOOOO :astonished: lol , just thought I would ask .
Thanks
Dave
email (option): davemb42@yahoo.com
Well at least Stuart Bray has a selection of proper WD bikes and he does know about them. Dealer pricing of course, as he does have to make a living, but there is always room to haggle, mention my name if you want.
The Norton again is a dealer and for that price there are an awful lot of missing and wrong parts to contend with for proper WD spec......Plus a total strip for a re-paint. Ron
email (option): ronpier@talk21.com
That 1941 M20 from Stuart Bray looks quite good to me. Nice with the big tank, early levers and big headlamp. Could be a very Original bike if the numbers match.
Shame about the finning around the exhaust and what about the forks legs replaced??
email (option): m.wijbenga@hotmail.com
That Norton is quite a lot of money and you're paying for what looks to be quite a high standard of finish that you don't want...If it was a private seller and he still had all the WD bits, it might be different.
There was quite a nice WD trim 16H on eBay last month, although the Buy it Now price was higher than this one, I believe that it sold off-eBay for less...Don't get too carried away with the asking prices.
They do come up occasionally. It's really a matter of keeping your ears open and putting word around. Don't lurk ! Ask questions and post comments on here so that people think of you if they hear of one.
Quite a number of Nortons that I see, especially those that were sold off in the late 1950s have dodgy altered frame and engine numbers. They have almost certainly been like that since they ended their 'National Service' but personally, I wouldn't touch a bike with an altered or ground-off frame number...Just as many could have been frame swaps in the '60s and '70s where DVLA were not advised and there could even be stolen frames included - with the cost of a bare frame now up towards £1000, there will be crooks around.
If you do go to look at a bike, I'd really suggest letting someone who knows the marque have a good look at some close-up photos of engine and frame numbers.
Thanks Ron . I have looked at Stuart Bray's website in the past. Its put my mind at ease knowing that you know of him ,its a mine field when you are not conversant with the "big" WD bikes .Its been beginners luck in the past with the Welbike and the Flea :relaxed: and the help I got
from yourself and advice off the forum .
I'll give Stuart a ring this week and have a chat , oh and just drop a name into the conversation :smile:
The Indian / Burma WM20 is a colour I've not seen before , looks like somebody has put a lot of time and effort into it . The 1941 WM at £7250 looks to be a nice bike .
Just something I noticed the valve cover ,some of the WM's have a plain cover and some have the cover with the BSA emblem , did they have both types,or is it something that would need replacing with the factory logo version ?
Dave
email (option): davemb42@yahoo.com
Hi Rik,thanks for the advice and info . I agree the "civi" Norton has been done to a high standard and does look a nice bit of kit , as you and Ron have both mentioned its the WD bits that would be the stumbling block, and also full strip down and repaint .
I'll keep looking for the elusive 16H .In the meantime I'll ring Stuart Bray and go for a WM20 which I understand is the one that is easier to source the parts for and maintain ? When I do manage to come across a 16H as you suggest, get photos of the engine / frame number and close ups of the bike, put them on the forum for people to give their opinions on whether its a genuine bike or its been tampered with :).
Thanks again
Dave
email (option): davemb42@yahoo.com
Hi Micheal
I did actually go back a couple of times and had a look at the listing on that one, then the one at £7250 caught my eye it looks to have had a lot of time and effort put into it .That's a problem I have, I wouldn't know how original one was and what was missing or the additions it shouldn't have on .
What Ron mentioned in his reply about Stuart Bray knowing his WD bikes put my mind at ease , buying from someone that is known in the circles is a bonus, I'll have to have a look for matching numbers hopefully the ones that have caught my eye are intact .The Flea was beginners luck :relieved:
Dave
email (option): davemb42@yahoo.com
Dave they changed the ally plate with the piled arms logo fairly early on, 1941 I think. Probably in an attempt to save ally. I guess at the rate BSA were churning them out, all those ally plates over a year could make one complete Spitfire :relaxed: Ron
email (option): ronpier@talk21.com
Ron,
that would make a spitfire with a lot of "piled arms"...
Thanks Ron ,the 1941 WM Stuart has advertised could have had either with it being in the change over period ?
email (option): davemb42@yahoo.com
The tappet cover change seems to have taken place mid-way through the large C7287 contract - Somewhere around C4350000 - Maybe around WM20 33000 - 34000. It's a matter of bracketing in period photos. Bear in mind though that if a cover was damaged, it would be replaced with the first one that came from the stores.
The rather oddly coloured brown bike (it's not SCC No.2) actually has a serial number suggesting that it dates from 1940 and it would have had the larger tank, valanced rear mudguard and alloy valve cover.
You have to bear in mind that unless you buy a bike from an extreme rivet-counter, the chances are that it will be a mixture of parts from various years, and in the case of the M20, quite often with 1950s WD replacement components as well.
There aren't that many people with the time, inclination, knowledge and skill to build an accurate contract-specific representation.
The tappet cover change seems to have taken place mid-way through the large C7287 contract - Somewhere around C4350000 - Maybe around WM20 33000 - 34000.
Hi Rik,
There's a factory photo, maybe, of WM20 30775 that has the ally tappet cover. I think the photo is from Henks DVD.
Dave
email (option): jeepfinger@blueyonder.co.uk
I agree with Rik. It must be almost or completely impossible to find a real original M20.
And certainly not at a fair price.
All bikes have been messed around with, if not in wartime, than in the many years after the war.
And changing a tappet cover is the least of problems.