Hi All,
could i ask for some of your expert advice.
I have a hand gear change BSA, 1934, i have just got the bike running, last on the road in 1974.
my question is as its my first hand change bike should the gears locate without being notchy, not easy to locate the gear without it grinding slightly.
i have made adjustments on the linkage which has improved the situation.
Is it that my clutch is not adjusted properly? When in neutral with engine running the back wheel spins. Also spins with clutch pulled in.
Any help , guidance would be welcome.
thanks
tony
email (option): tony.g.moore@googlemail.com
It’s not unusual to have a little “windage” resulting from slight drag in the clutch or gearbox...resulting in the rear wheel turning on the centre stand while gearbox in neutral, or in gear with clutch disengaged. But it sounds like you might have some excessive clutch drag that is causing the gear grinding.
I’ll let the experts weigh in, but I would make sure the clutch is releasing/disengaging fully before spending time on anything else. Have you gone through the clutch previously? Clean fiber plates, plates of the correct dimensions, unwarped steel plates, no oil contamination, spring lifting square, no notching of clutch center or outer basket, etc.
There have been numerous discussions about clutch action and remedies on this forum that should be searchable, so start there first before heading to the shop on a cold January 1st...!!
email (option): teladelujo@msn.com
Thanks John, i have not yet touched the clutch yet, i needed to get some ideas from the team before i strip anything apart for no reason. I have ridden up and down the road, neighbours love me!, as a test pilot, gear change not so bad when moving, seems to be going into first when standing is worse.
it might also be me as i am not used to changing gear with my hand....its different but i think i will enjoy it!
cheers
tony
email (option): tony.g.moore@googlemail.com
A bit of grind when engaging 1st from a standstill; again not abnormal, if still undesirable. Clutch drag the most likely candidate. Based on what your report, I suggest that the clutch needs a disassembly and inspection.
When shifting underway, you should be able to manage a grind-free gear change. Some “art” involved in shifting; no rushing the process, engine revs need to fall off “just so” and the gear lever then moved confidently, but without excessive force into the next engagement position. Over some miles of use you will get a feel for what your machine requires to shift reasonable smoothly, but getting the clutch set up properly is the place to start.
All the Best for 2018
email (option): teladelujo@msn.com
I have always found the hand change on my 1930 OHV Sloper 'notchy' and a very different feel to foot change.
Remember to allow time to chnage gear, unlike these boy racers on their post war foot change 'boxes that can be slicked from gear to gear!
Your problem is clutch drag. You need to ensure that the clutch disengages evenly. Measure all the springs and place equal length springs at 180 deg to each other. Adjust to get equal compression on all springs. You can do this by visual observation. When you can find neutral at standstill with the engine running, you should be OK.
email (option): pvlietstra at Gmail.com
Happy New year.
I agree, the clutch is the most likely candidate. However this may well be a single spring set up in which case you can od nothing as there is not enough space to make the conversion like on the M20 clutch. I think Cornucopia makes new springs for these clutches. This may be worth considering. Otherwise just wiggle the bike back and forward while putting it into first gear and the rest will work like John pointed out.
Kind regards,
Leon
email (option): leonhop3_at_planet_dot_nl
If it does have the single spring 'Empire Star' type clutch? A couple of things come to mind. The after market fibre discs can be thicker than BSA intended and therefor take up too much room in the basket. Also with an M20 it's quite common practice to leave out one friction and one steel plate from the stack, which will create more separation room in the basket and make the pull at the lever much lighter. Ron
email (option): ronpier@talk21.com
There is an article covering clutch drag (and slip) in the Technical Section of the website...
If you have the thicker after market plates there may not be any extra room in the basket if you leave two plates out...That will only restore the overall height of the plate 'stack' to about the original figure...
Original fibre plates were .093" thick (8 in number) and the steel plates were .048" thick (7 in number) so you should be able to determine what you should have and what you actually have using those figures...Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
Wow, what fantastic advice and guidance you have given me.single spring clutch is what i have, wish i didnt have to work would be out in the garage now! Will update on my findings
Thankyou all
tony
email (option): tony.g.moore@googlemail.com
Mind you, this is an early BSA and i think is has far less clutch plates then an M20.
So leaving out 2 plates can be tricky...
Hi Gents, i have taken the clutch apart tonight, six springs were hidden beneath a plate, so i have a sloper clutch fitted. Completly different from any i have come accross before. I have wiped off muck etc from the plates , reassembled and started the bike. Still the same. Next thing to do is to clean the metal plates up as they are quite rough, ok to use auto sol polish and then clean in petrol?
I will read up now on setting up , has anyone got any exploded views of the BSA Sloper clutch, cant find any on the web
just need to make sure all plates are installed in the correct sequence and order.
cheers for now
Tony
email (option): tony.g.moore@googlemail.com
Tony it looks like Drags have parts for the pre war 6 spring clutch
https://www.draganfly.co.uk/index.php/bsa/bsa/a710--b3133--c101112--m202133/category/1155-pre-war
Ron
email (option): ronpier@talk21.com
Tony,
The comments made about the cutch are all excellent. But here's a thought - my Sloper (alas long gone now) had no problem with engaging first, and I think that was because it was set up to rev very slowly at idle, and with a slight retard to the ignition, it slipped into gear easily. Can you try lowering the engine speed as much as possible? Then it may be a self solving problem.
Allan
email (option): allanmatchless@yahoo.com
Yes, making sure engine is reving slowly was a thought I had in light of my Sloper.
I've found some clutch drawings and instructiona which I can scan and email if still rrequired.
A Sloper type clutch was only fitted to Slopers (obviously)and V-twins. In Sloper clutches it is not the plates that cause the problem but the sleeve. The splines tend to wear a lot which causes the plates to lock on the sleeve. I have had new sleeves made. They are not cheap but are excellent quality.
If it is a normal pre war six spring clutch it is very similar to the post war 6 spring clutches. If it is a mid thirties over 250cc bike (like a 1934 bike) then originally it would have the Bleu Star type single spring clutch, which is not similar to the Empire Star/WD M20 clutch. However new plates and springs are available for these clutches. Some pre war 250cc bikes have 12 spring clutches with a ring very similar to the clutch spring conversion for the M20.
So what type of BSA do you have?
email (option): leonhop3_at_planet_dot_nl
Hi, this is the heavyweight Sloper clutch. Built like a tank but like Leon says the plate (R) is sliding on the splined sleeve which wear out relatively quick. This problem was deleted in the Empire Star / WDM20 clutch which has a non-sliding sleeve.
Cheers, Michiel
email (option): m.wijbenga@hotmail.com
Michiel, thats the drawing i need, thats the clutch i have. Could you email the drawing to me? Tony.g.moore@googlemail.com I can now see the correct order and rotatation of the plates.
I will now go back and strip down and check all the items you have all advised on. And yes the slower the tickover the less noise putting bike into first.
excellent help again , cheers all
email (option): tony.g.moore@googlemail.com
Update gents.
I read up on all the info you all gave me and with a combination of the advice given i am up and running, gear change a lot easier with a fraction of the noise i had engageing gear.
I cleaned all the plates, removed burrs, reassembled in the correct order. Slowed engine right down after curing a carburettor problem with a new plastic float and needle. First gear stright in...fantastic....amazing what you can do when wife goes to W i .
Many thanks all,
Tony
email (option): tony.g.moore@googlemail.com
Hi Tony
Dead chuffed you got it sorted and many thanks for the feedback.