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KM20 Info wanted

Hello all, Looking for any information about 1939 KM20, census number C 398273, contract number C 3139, Any info or history anyone has would be much appreciated, Regards, John(Tom)Green.

email (option): rustytomm20@hotmail.com

Re: KM20 Info wanted

Do you have a photo, John ? It's very difficult to be specific as these pre-war contracts were not allocated serial numbers consecutively. The numbers were allocated after arrival at Chilwell.

C398273 was the 221st serial issued which would put the bike around KM20 1322 but it could have been a day or two out. It would have been to deLuxe specification and delivered during April 1939.

Re: KM20 Info wanted

Hi Rik, The pot is starting to simmer was wondering where the bike has seen service, I own the Tank off this bike and it is in Wehrmacht tropical colours with Kr 305 9302 (305th infantry' Kradmelder?) stencilled in red paint (over a large brush painted white R) on the tank top, Found the c number by carefully sanding down the paint on the left hand side, I know the German's used tropical paint early in the war in Russia (operation Barbarossa ?) what I'm hoping to find out is if the bike was captured from the BEF or was already in Europe via the ministry of supply? Unfortunately i have'nt got a clue how to post pictures on the forum but if you pm me I'll email you some photos
Regards John.

email (option): rustytomm20@hotmail.com

Re: KM20 Info wanted

Sounds like an interesting machine, I would love to see some pictures.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Re: KM20 Info wanted

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photo 4a

photo 3a

photo 2a

Here you go John.

email (option): dncnsimpson@hotmail.com

Re: KM20 Info wanted

Thanks Duncan, you are a star, John.

email (option): rustytomm20@hotmail.com

Re: KM20 Info wanted

Nice tank and markings!!! but to get to the German colours used, from before the war till about 1942 the Wehrmacht grey was used, and from then on the sand colour, it's not a specific "desert" colour, that had a more pink shade to it. (have all the RAL numbers somewhere)

So all equipment, bikes, cars, trucks and tanks had a sand like colour, even on the eastern front, it was thought at the time that this was the best colour scheme for camouflage, and often it was oversprayed with red and green in a camouflage pattern, each theatre of war different, to suit the landscape.

So it is logical that there is first the British deep bronze green, grey (two shades? maybe the lighter grey is Luftwaffe?), and then sand on the tank, but don't think it ever was in the dessert.

Also see white on there, could be winter camo? Ok had another look, the C number stands in a black rectangle, with white lines on the border, common practise in 1939.

Is the tank only in that paint? and not the bike, or did they come from different sources?

Cheers,

Lex

email (option): welbike@welbiXX.net (think about it!!)

Re: KM20 Info wanted

Here's one in the UK, with the black rectangle.

Cheers,

Lex

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email (option): welbike@welbiXX.net (think about it!!)

Re: KM20 Info wanted

Very interesting, could we see some pictures of the frame please, does it have the undrilled rear sidecar lug and the mounts for the short side stand under the brake pivot?

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Re: KM20 Info wanted

Sorry I didn't read your posts properly, you only have the tank.

rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Re: KM20 Info wanted

Hello all, The original colour is Bronze Green (like British Racing Green) over painted with Grey then a coat of matt Black, The sand colour is heavily brush painted on (lots of streaks may have been mixed with kerosene) the saddle end and under the tank are original Green, Unfortunatly i only have the petrol tank from this bike (Wish I had the rest of it) The Tank came from Garwolin, Poland if that's any help. Never seen another like it.
Regards. John.

email (option): rustytomm20@hotmail.com

Re: KM20 Info wanted

A fascinating tank, John. The Norton factory records show a change of colour to "Dull Green" in October 1938 and then "Khaki" in June 1939 which would seem to bracket the April 1939 period that probably relates to yours.

It's probably not possible to tell if yours was a matt or gloss bronze green ?

Too much to hope for as well that there were any unit markings on the other side of the tank ? Generally there weren't at this period.

Re: KM20 Info wanted

Hi Rik
The green looks matt to me whoever painted it didn't remove the knee pads so there is good original paint underneath can't see any markings on right hand side unfortunately,
Regards John,

email (option): rustytomm20@hotmail.com

Re: KM20 Info wanted

Hi guys
i think the KM21 39 the wheels is 18' and the tank balloon with panel switch and ammper & small side stand under the rear frame

email (option): sl_hussein@yahoo.com

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