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Re: Wet sumping...

Well done Ian
Unfortunately not all Brit bikes were fitted with an anti-wetsumping ball and spring. If it's fitted there's no reason it shouldn't work. My B25 doesn't wet sump or leak oil (no ones more surprised than me 😀). I did everything you've done to my 16H but it still filled the crankcases, an external ball valve was the only option and it works very well. A quick check of the oil indicator when started and it's always been fine.

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

Re: Wet sumping...

Yes...My comments apply only to BSA B and M Series engines that employ that particular set up...

The BSA engines use two anti drain valves to overcome this problem rather than the single one used by Velocette on the feed side, which is what has been widely marketed as the answer to the same problem in other models...
If it is a workable solution in some cases that's fine but I'm not convinced from my own experience that is always the case...

Personally, because I don't like the theoretical design and operation of such valves and particularly the 'one size fits all' theory of operation I still do, and always will, prefer the 'downstream of the pump' solution. In the case of BSA pumping pressure vastly exceeds the anti drain valve sealing pressure which pretty much guarantees an operational system under all conditions...

My main gripe however, does apply to BSAs, where a functional provision for anti wet sumping is built into the design but maintenance of that when required is ignored in favour of fitting another valve...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: Wet sumping...

Unfortunately not everyone has access to a lathe to do the mods as you have done. I understand your reluctance to using aftermarket anti-drain valves but to many it is the only option other then draining the sump before use.

Re: Wet sumping...

My latest C10 (1940) wet sumps like crazy! Like Ian I worked on an original oil pump to get it all working free and fitted a new ball and spring in the timing cover after giving it a tap to seat the ball. For the time being I've left the drain plug out and put a container under the sump to eventually drain the oil tank, which was less than half full anyway.

My intention is to get it back on the bench sometime and address the issue. The tips from Ian are imprinted in my brain.

I don't use a lathe either but I know guys who do and I won't fit an anti wet sump valve or tap out of complete stubbornness Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: Wet sumping...

['I won't fit an anti wet sump valve or tap out of complete stubbornness']..

...

Well, I like to think I put forward a logical argument based on the engineering principles but I admit there's an element of Rons thinking in there as well...

Unless we are to assume the BSA system had an inherent design fault and therefore it never worked then it should be possible to fix it with some application (and stubbornness)...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: Wet sumping...

Matchlesses never wet sump......they just happen to have an additional underslung auto-recharging oil reservoir. But I think that the primary cure for wet sumping ......... and one the engine designers assumed.......is that the bike gets a run every day!

Re: Wet sumping...

Quote...BSA service sheet 604 ['There are two ball valves in the system, both placed between the tank and the sump to prevent the transfer of oil when the engine is not running']..

I think 'not running' is the same for a week as it is overnight... and I don't think BSA engineers assumed all bikes would be run every day
(take M20s parked up on an Army camp as just one example...)

A badly defective system is able to drop sufficient oil within 24 hours to make starting difficult and the engine smoky when it starts up...

I timed mine dripping oil at the rate of one drop every 15 seconds prior to rectification...

One other mod. I did do while I was at it was to drill and tap through the crank case drain plug and fit a small bolt into it...That way it's not necessary to keep removing the plug repeatedly with the inherent risk of stripping the thread in the cases Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: Wet sumping...

Is there a option for my G3WO? Lex had fit the oil pump in the correct position Bud its stil wet sumping!

Regards. Bram

Re: Wet sumping...

I have been running an A10 with an external anit wetsumping valve for about 20 years. Wet sumping solved and engine hasn't blown up yet.

Alternatively people do fit a tap in the supply side: these must be people who also enjoy Russian roulette (winky imogee)

Re: Wet sumping...

Whether or not to fit an external anti wet sumping valve frequently comes up for discussion on all British bike forums. After having read all the views repeated many times over for many years, I have come to the conclusion that it has nothing to do with the bike and everything to do with the owner.
It all depends on the degree of AR from which the owner suffers. Firstly, to own, ride and live with a 1940’s girder fork motorcycle requires the owner to be AR. Some are more AR than others.
Consider the owner who’s bike leaks lots of oil and is littered with metric fasteners. This owner is not very AR and should not fit an anti wet sumping valve, mainly because he is not sufficiently AR to remember to open it before riding off. This type of owner should rather live with wet sumping.
Now consider the owner who’s bike only leaks a little oil and has a few well hidden metric fasteners. This person is sufficiently AR to remember to open the valve before riding off and can probably live with such a valve.
Finally, you get the owner who’s generator actually charges the battery, who’s bike leaks no oil, and has canvas grips on the handle bar. For this person, the suction valve is a foreign object and will keep him awake at night until he removes it and re-seats the ball and spring.

email (option): pvlietstra at gmail

Re: Wet sumping...

Can it be fixed and if so how?...That's what interests me...AR...Applied Repairs... ...

The more I try things the more I know what can and can't be done...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: Wet sumping...

Sometimes my M21 wet sumps, sometimes it doesn't. My other two never did: mind you that was 40 years ago when oil was different. Next year I'm going to run it on Morris monograde. I run my 16H on 50 grade, and even after months it doesn't wet sump. It used the drain the tank into the sump on multigrade. Putting aside that modern multigrades are considered superior to monogrades; monogrades were what the engines were designed to use. Quite frankly, with the barrel distortion that sidevalves are prone to and thus the amount of oil these engines tend to burn, how long monograde retains it's properties is is of little consequence. As an aside in the USA some top Harley engine builders use monograde....

email (option): j@clogmaker.co.uk

Re: Wet sumping...

My feeling with oil line taps is that no-one who has ever forgotten to turn their fuel on or has ever inadvertently turned it off when they weren't intending to should ever fit one without some sort of mechanical or electrical over-ride, and then the result is a non-original looking mess which doesn't belong on a machine purporting to portray a WD motorcycle.

If it's already fitted with a tractor seat and exhaust bandage then I suppose it doesn't matter much

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