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Re: Military Motorcycle Markings and Insignia

Rob, Thanks for the extra photos. You have the early, weaker tank mount (as have I on W4216). The earliest certain date that I have for the reinforced mount is Kostas' W19518 which dates from the latter part of 1940 so we're now a little closer to pinning down when the change actually occured.

 photo W19518 2_zpsvs6tjhaa.jpg

The extra research seems to be paying dividends too. It will require further analysis to see how many of the W12000 series were delivered and to where. 'H&M' were certainly listed in the pre-war Norton ledgers but I don't recall them in connection with any military type machines.

The WD contract commencing at W14000 had a price per machine of £52-17-0. These were machines supplied delivered to UK destinations and with a two year (!!) guarantee. It's clear from civilian sales that prior to WW2, the overseas agents purchased ex-works and were responsible for transport and also for all warranties. Presumably they had a claim against the factory but the end-customer does not seem to have had. I think that we can therefore assume that Disney's paid Norton something less than £52, but charged the Australian Government considerably more !

We also don't know if these contracts included an agreed quantity of spares - UK WD contracts often had 10% spare engines and frames and 5% spare gearboxes.

Yours is the only survivor known in the W12000 series according to Rob vd B's lists and we know of no W11000s or W13000s.

Re: Military Motorcycle Markings and Insignia

Is mine the reinforced type? Frame W20330. Ron

 photo 16H 005_zpsfehcnnhx.jpg

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: Military Motorcycle Markings and Insignia

Yes, Ron. It has the ridge right along the back rather than just the two 'gull wing' lugs. You also have the gearbox lug casting which comes up higher than the mount - also a strengthening mod.

Unfortunately, all these mods appeared fairly early on so don't help me much in dating later-war frames. I wish that there had been some later changes as well.

Wasn't yours also lacking some toolbox mounts as it was from C6653 ?

Re: Military Motorcycle Markings and Insignia

Rik
Yes, Ron. It has the ridge right along the back rather than just the two 'gull wing' lugs. You also have the gearbox lug casting which comes up higher than the mount - also a strengthening mod.

Unfortunately, all these mods appeared fairly early on so don't help me much in dating later-war frames. I wish that there had been some later changes as well.

Wasn't yours also lacking some toolbox mounts as it was from C6653 ?


I now remember that we've talked about this in the past Rik. Yes mine has no toolbox lugs. This must make it a pannier toolbox model? Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: Military Motorcycle Markings and Insignia

Indeed, Ron. All the photographic evidence shows that C6653 (W18001 - W22000) was fitted all the way through with the pannier toolboxes (although they weren't shown in the spare parts lists). They were listed for the following contract - C7353 (W26001 - W43000) but then discontinued around W31000. Apart from 780 supplied to the RAF, we have no trace between 22000 and 26000 - clearly not a WD (army) contract. It would have been nice to find some of those numbers in the Australian lists too.

Re: Military Motorcycle Markings and Insignia

Yes Rik. My 16H came to me in civy trim with quite a few early features but fitted with pannier rack and pillion seat etc. So I decided to depict the bike as being brought up to a later war specification. My 1940 M20 is the same! Not so important for me as I have other bikes that I've devoted time and effort to make period factory correct....
And it's so handy having panniers.

I did have a matching pair of pannier toolboxes and kick myself for letting them go, just in case I felt the need to convert it back to original spec Ron
 photo 16H 325_zpsteksui0g.jpg

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: Military Motorcycle Markings and Insignia

Can someone please tell me whether my 1940 build WD16H should have rubber oil lines or plated copper pipes?

Regards,
Rob

email (option): robert.g.elliott@gmail.com

Re: Military Motorcycle Markings and Insignia

I believe they should be a mix of both as per the above photograph.

Re: Military Motorcycle Markings and Insignia

Early 1940 machines were fitted with the pre-war type of dull-chromed copper piping. The feed in particular is an odd size as the tank filter has a 5/16" fitting and the engine is 1/4" which requires a nipple which sits inside the lower end of the 5/16" pipe rather than outside.

There was a D.M.E. circular dated 24/2/41 detailing fitting of flexible petrol and oil pipes 'as necessary'. It is likely that production had been amended prior to this but on the UK contracts the spare parts lists didn't catch up until contract C10217 / W45001 but it has long been evident that the spare parts lists were type-set some time prior to production.

I suspect that yours would have had the rigid copper type.

What we really need is for someone in Australia to find a spare parts list for the Australian contracts !

Re: Military Motorcycle Markings and Insignia

Thanks Rik,

Mine had the copper pipes fitted when I got it - so that checks out.

A spares list would be good - will ponder where best to search.

On a different topic - does anyone have a photo of the Black Manilla Mask fitted to early headlights for blackout purposes?

Regards,
Rob

email (option): robert.g.elliott@gmail.com

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