I need help Identifying the rear section of this frame. I was told it could be M23 or 24. Possibly modified. Any opinions?

Thanks,
Adam

Does anyone have a 39 parts catalog? I've been meaning to get one. I would like to see the M24 frame view! Front section of the frame is genuine KM24

Adam

The 39 parts book will be of little use.
Exploded parts diagrams did not appear till after WWII
1910 to 1942 parts contained a single line drawing of each part, usually a plain elevation.
Even worse it was done in years for all models so the wheel page will have 15 wheels and the frame page shows which fronts go with which rears, but not enough detail to distingusish one rear from another

email (option): bsansw1@tpg.com.au

If this exists, then maybe somewhere there is a 39 diagram

I got an Idea! I have a complete 38 jm19 frame. I should be able to weigh the front and rear sections, then weigh this km24 frame front and rear. I should see a a difference in weight as the m24 had lighter tubing? I am going to see the frame in a few weeks. It has been offered to me. The gentleman is only a few hours away from me. Before I shell out the money I would like to know if its correct. The m24 should have rear foot rest mountings correct? The rear section in the photo is prewar as it has the welded curved section instead of the cast piece. I think it was modified but I am no expert.

Adam

It's as Trevor says. The 39 parts list covers about 18 models and has poor illustrations, which in turn can be several pages away from the relevant text. A bit difficult to follow to say the least. But it is better than a parts list with no illustrations at all. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

I might be able to find out what it is in the factory ledgers but I need the frame number for that. I think that an M24 actually has M24 in the frame number.

Henk

email (option): ahum@quicknet.nl

Yes but Henk. That wouldn't cover the rear section
As far as I can make out the rear frame # 65-4539 is fitted to B21/23/24.

Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Hi Adam,

I think it is indeed a correct M24 frame, it is a prewar rearframe for sure, with the tube around the oilpump but without the sidecar lug which, as far as I know, makes it M24 only.

Looks to have 3 additional lugs on the lower frame tubes, which could be homemade, althought the one on the rear-leftside looks like a nice frame lug?

Not sure about the pillion footrests, maybe they made them with and without. Lots of M24's you find on the internet seems to have footrests but lots of them also have the wrong frame with sidecarlugs. The whole idea was to make a lightweight frame and to skip all that was not needed and yours don't have the pillion lugs which seems correct.

Are you sure the framenumber is original? The early WM20 had exactly the same lightweight front frame which are being used make a fake M24 frame.
But as this comes together with the early rearsection that chance is not so big.

Nice find!! shame the rearframe has been broken. These 19 mm tubes are a bit flimsy for its task.....

Cheers, Michiel / Netherlands.

email (option): m.wijbenga@hotmail.com

Ron Pier

Yes but Henk. That wouldn't cover the rear section
As far as I can make out the rear frame # 65-4539 is fitted to B21/23/24.

Ron

email (option): ahum@quicknet.nl

It's KM 319. George wander has said the stamping is original. He wasn't sure about the rear section, saying it could be 23 or 24 and looked to be modified. I'm looking to get other opinions. I have in my collection engine KM328. I'm hopping to have a marriage of the two soon. I also have a chance to get original 39 valanced mud guards! I've been on a prewar hot streak. That's hard to due from florida!

Adam

What part does Mr. Wander think has been modified on the rearsection besides the additonal footrest lugs?

To my knowlegde the M23's had a sidecarframe. The ones without sidecar lugs were the M24 and later the M20's.

And what you have is not a WM20 rearframe as the KM and WM sidevalve engines won't fit between the frametubes.

I wrote before that I think the very early WM20's used the complete lightweight M24 frame including it's shorter and lightweight fork, probably to meet weight standards set by the WD.

email (option): m.wijbenga@hotmail.com

Ah! I got my B's and M's mixed up The rear part for an M23 is #66-4562, M24 is #66-4563. Would these rear frames have a part number on them? Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

I guess George saw photos of this frame at some point in history, so he knew about it. I guess its hard do give 100% yes just because people make forgeries. I really would like to see an original section so I can restore the rear to original spec. So if there is an added lug, I would like to get rid of it.

A closer inspection might help.

I guess George saw photos of this frame at some point in history, so he knew about it. I guess its hard do give 100% yes just because people make forgeries. I really would like to see an original section so I can restore the rear to original spec. So if there is an added lug, I would like to get rid of it.

A closer inspection might help.

Here is my 38 JM19 frame. I can not find numbers on the rear section.