Xandre, rather than a typo, my use of the '8' rather than a 'B' is due to the fact that I don't have one of these later magdynos and am relying on photos of grubby labels. The Lucas stampings are sometimes a little indistict and I've seen examples of dates with a 'I' in rather than '1' - In the same way, it looks to me that the correct designation is M01 and not MO1.

Lucas seem to have started out with 6-digit numbers for magdynos then gone over to 5-digit with a suffix letter. This is perhaps more logical as it allows for updates without changing the whole number. 46012 seems to have been a Norton type and can be found with suffixes from A to E.

However, these are purely catalogue parts numbers. The important thing is the AG4 code which indicates a clockwise mag with cylinder-side pickup and Norton four-screw fixing....the latter two are really the only things that can't easily be changed.

Any AG4 with a wartime date that you find acceptable is OK on a WD16H.

Hello,
RE 248cc WD/D partlist say:
MO1/4,L1/0 and there is a second line for magdyno type: MO1/4,AQ/4
need to look at my magdynos in the shed if i've got some others...
Arnaud

email (option): leger-arnaud@wanadoo.fr

That's strange Arnaud. I looked in my WD/D parts list and couldn't even see a magdyno listed. Will have to check if I have pages missing

I have an incomplete WD/D engine with inspectors stamp if you need one?

Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

In the case of the Norton the 1946 VAOS list doesn't mention a M01/4/AG4 as shown in my wartime spares list, only an M01/6/AG4 so is it possible Norton changed its Magneto late in the war or just after?

The spares list don't appear to give part numbers for bodies or CB housings so it doesn't indicate whether this was a change from tight wire advance to slack wire.

Here are a few differences by part number M01/4/AG4 first then M01/6/AG4

Armature/Condensor
460132 464140 Condensor Assembly, “Paper type” added with M01/6
164334 --------- Washer Linen
--------- 455634 Washer, .045” thick, bearing packing

Drive End Details
M174/4 450066 Nipple, “New type round head, for securing Dynamo" added M01/6

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

I've sent you copies of the magdyno pages in the WD/D, WD/C, WD/CO, WD/G and WD/L parts lists Rob. Lots of numbers to sort out...

Jan

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Ron,
no it's "normal" maybe you've got the C 7374/5/1 or the C 7945/10/1 from May 1940,
but in April 1941 there is a part list for these 2 contract condensed in one book!!!
and they ad the carburetor and the electrical system...





the other pages are in photobucket..
find nothing about magdynos on the WD/G or WD/L part list or hints and tips books....

email (option): leger-arnaud@wanadoo.fr

Come on, where are the other marque specialists? Research like this needs your support!

Jan

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

I'm pretty sure that the suffix is simply an apdate code. In the WD16H literature, I have the following :-

C9681 (1937) - M01/1 AG.4 - 463831
C5109 (1939) - M01/2 AG.4 - 463960
C5612 (1940) - M01/2 AG.4 - ---"--
C6127 (1940) - M01/4 AG.4 - 465110

I have a photograph of an M01/6 plate on a 'post-war' style body but of course these things can be changed and I am not always sure that the LV7 lists weren't updated to include the latest spec - 1940 seems early for an M01/4 to me, based on tags that I've seen. I have copies on file as follows :-

M01/2 ??? 463952 11/(3)9 (Aluminium)
M01/2 AG4 463960 11/(3)9 (Aluminium)- Norton 16H
M01/2 H3 463963 11/(3)9 (Aluminium)- Ariel
M01/4 AG20 465109 4/41 (Brass)
M01/4 L1 465102 11/41 (Brass)
M01/4 AG4 460128 11/42 (Brass)
M01/6 H3 6013F 5/48 (Aluminium)

Not a truly representative selection but perhaps some clues there. Unfortunately, the post-war Lucas master list only includes civilian models so the LV7 lists are our only real source.

Anyone got any more....I might start on MCR1 codes next.

Also Ariel WNG:
contract S.6287 ( issued march 1945) MO1/6,H3/0
contract C13871 ( issued November42 reprint feb 1944) MO1/4,H3

Arnaud

email (option): leger-arnaud@wanadoo.fr

Awesome, lots of numbers for everyone to crunch

Rik, is it possible the "AG20" in your last batch is actually "AC20"?

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Rob, Yes, it is. I've even catalogued it as AC20 but then mis-typed and failed to proof read

Is it WM20 ?

I see that you have a brass plate dated 8/40 - That must be about the earliest.

I keep coming across 11/9 dated plates. They either produced a lot of magdynos in November 1939 or stamped far too many plates up !

This is what it looks like so far, please correct me if I'm wrong.

AC20 = BSA
AG4 = Norton
L = Royal Enfield
LI = Royal Enfield
AQ4 = Royal Enfield
H3 = Ariel
? = Triumph

Matchless and Velocette didn't use the M01 but what about Triumph

Norton magnetos run clockwise and there doesn't appear to be a specific number or letter to denote this, did any other military motorcycles run clockwise magnetos?

Norton Magnetos have the pickup on the side nearest the engine, BSA on the side furthest away, how about other makes?

It appears that changes were made later in the war which meant a change from M01/4 to M01/6, it may have been a minor alteration like a different type of Condenser or a change from tight wire to slack wire? and I have to wonder why there isn't an M01/5?

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

It appears according to some paperwork sent to by Jan that H3 was used by Royal Enfield as well as Ariel.

I assume that putting the date on the Magneto was more to do with a specific period guarantee, so if Lucas were supplying magnetos for a large contract that took months or even years to complete then their could be a wide variety of dates used, its also possible that electrical equipment could be delivered to a factory and kept in store for a period before being fitted to a machine and delivered to the War Office?

Then there is the question of spare magnetos, is it possible that the plates differed from those fitted in the factories?

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

There are also the base details to consider...Pegs (4)..BSA...Tapped holes (4)..Norton, tapped holes (3) Ariel.. and I've also seen bases with 5 tapped holes that could do both of the latter two makes..

Triumph used the MO1 as well...I think from memory they had the 4 pegs like a BSA but I might be wrong on that...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

That's a good point Ian, the dowels in the BSA magnetos appear to be fixed, but judging by these some Royal Enfields had removable dowels in a Norton style threaded base.

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

I bought this humble little item from John O Brian at Beaulieu on Saturday, I have never actually seen an M01 condenser before even though they have caused me several breakdowns and a fair amount of exercise over the years. Like all wartime Lucas spares its dated, and the Lucas CAV Rotax device is nice, I wonder if the box is period or could it be a post war repackage for the Irish Army?

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Grettings from Argentina!

This is the Magdyno i found in my 1944 Ariel WNG M01*4 46011B AC20 344



Any pic about the correct Ariel Magdyno M01/6 H3/0 ?

Thnaks in advance!

email (option): m606paz@yahoo.com.ar

Here are the missing pictures from my earlier posts.

Post 1


Post 17

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Rob Miller

I bought this humble little item from John O Brian at Beaulieu on Saturday, I have never actually seen an M01 condenser before even though they have caused me several breakdowns and a fair amount of exercise over the years. Like all wartime Lucas spares its dated, and the Lucas CAV Rotax device is nice, I wonder if the box is period or could it be a post war repackage for the Irish Army?

Rob

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

Rik
The Lucas 1935-39 master catalogue does exist
I have an original one

That's wonderful, Darren Is it illustrated ?

Another Magdyno Plate

email (option): m606paz@yahoo.com.ar

I own Lucas Magdyno M01*2 463957 L6 79, which based on this thread is from July 1939, and supposedly came from an imported M20 to the U.S. with other M20 parts that I purchased. The aluminum bottom section is painted dark green, consistent with post-WWII refurbished motorcycles. The data plate is steel.

email (option): questmasters(at)hotmail(dot)com

Rob,

I have a 1935-1950 Lucas catalog scanned (thanks to Rob v/d Brink) it's a copy of a copy, but can send the PDF by mail, if you don't have it?

re. the brass plates, I think they are nickel plated brass, but very thin.

Cheers,

Lex

email (option): welbike@welbi##.net (think about this!)

Here's my 1944 Royal Enfield WD/CO (contract #12425) magdyno plate.



Regards,
Bas

An M01'2 is certainly early and would normally have had an anodised aluminium label. To save resources, they changed to brass. As Lex says, they had a silver coating...it could be a flash of nickel or some from of silvering. It was very thin and quickly worn away.

Bas

Here's my 1944 Royal Enfield WD/CO (contract #12425) magdyno plate.



Regards,
Bas

email (option): m606paz@yahoo.com.ar

Lucas Magdyno M01*2 463957 L6 79 (July 1939?)

email (option): questmasters(at)hotmail(dot)com

I've failed to come up with an answer as to which manufacturer used the L6 magdyno and I can't trace 463957 either - it's very close to a number of known instruments but is missing from the post-war supersession listings.

I've asked Darren who posted above if his older list can shed any light.

I've gone through the pre-war listings in some detail with Darren's help and find no trace of the L6 variant, nor of a part number 463957.....I wonder if it was a spare part supplied separately, perhaps to upgrade earlier magnetos and therefore doesn't appear in the machine-specific listings.

Just to confirm Rob's findings, the civilian listings for 1939 show the following -

Ariel - H3 - 463963
BSA - AC20 - 463959
Norton - AG4 - 463960
R.E. - L1 - 464926
Triumph No code -463951

Whilst I am in magneto mode here is my silvered data plate info(wm20). MO1 4. 46011B. AC20. 243.
Regards jon

I've been looking at my records again with recent additions and been able to confirm that the code letter for Triumph is simply 'L'

The pre-war fitments list shows parts numbered 463821 (1937) and 463951 (1939). The former is an M01'1 and the latter an M01'2





The M01'2 is likely to have been fitted up until the end of 1939, but by February / March 1940, the M01'4 had appeared and I don't yet have a part number for that. It should though still have the 'L' code so I'll know it when I see it. The M01'6 from Late 1944 / Early 1955 is also unknown as Triumph had no post-war singles that would enable a cross-reference.

463951 is also listed for 1939 Cotton, OK Supreme and Sunbeam. I also have a photo of an L6 with a slightly unclear part number. If it is indeed 463827 then it is New Imperial.

I think that I've narrowed down the M01'4 used by Triumph, which should be the most common, but not the late war M01'6 yet.

The M01'4 is 465101 and either Type L or L/0

I've started putting together a full list..so if anyone can add anything, it would be a good moment to include it.

The MO1/4 AQ/4 465115 which appeared for RE WD/D contract C/7945 appears in the civilian lists for 1940 150cc and 250cc models. This makes sense as C7945 was the composite July 1940 contract made up of various models and having the appearance of using up factory stock and spares.

It seems to have been interchangeble in all respects with the L1 type. The difference may have been as simple as the length of A/R cable or HT lead fitted to the complete assembly

As so often, once one starts looking there is often more information available so I've attempted to correlate evrything that I can find. It's from multiple sources and is based as far as possible on definitive links, but E.&.O.E., of course. The lists commence with the pre-war MO1/0 as although not generally used for 'our' generation of WD machines, they may help identify one that's fitted. I've included the ring cam MSL1 for Norton as these were initially fitted to machines which saw wartime service.

The 1950s Lucas documentation clearly refers to 'MO' and not 'M0' although a zero is what appears to be stamped on the plates and the ' mark is shown as a full stroke.

In general, it's all quite logical and straightforward, with the exception of Royal Enfield and their plethora of models and variations. Although Triumph are shown in Lucas literature as 'L/0', the few plates that I have seen are stamped simply 'L'

The next task will be to try pinning down the dates of the changes and whether aluminium or brass plates were used.

Ariel
MO1/0 - H3/1 - 463814
MO1/1 - H3/1 - 463834
MO1/2 - H3 - - 463963
MO1/4 - H3 - - 465112
MO1/6 - H3/0 - 46013

BSA
MO1/1 - AC20/0 - 463830
MO1/2 - AC20 - - 463959
MO1/4 - AC20 - - 465109
MO1/6 - AC20 - - 46011

Norton
MSL1/11 – AG - 462810
MO1/0 – AG4 - 463811
MO1/1 - AG4 - 463831
MO1/2 - AG4 - 463960
MO1/4 - AG4 - 465110
MO1/6 - AG4/0 - 46012

Royal Enfield
MO1/0 – L1 – 463821 – 1938 Range
MO1/1 - L1 – 464926 – 1939 Range
MO1/2 – L1 – 463952 - WD/C
MO1/4 - L1 – 465102 – WD/CO + D + G + L
MO1/4 – AQ4 – 465115 – WD/D
MO1/4 - H3 – 465112 – WD/C
MO1/4 - L1/0 – 46010
MO1/6 – L1/0 – 46010B

Triumph
MO1/1 - L/0- 463821
MO1/2 - L/0 - 463951
MO1/4 - L/0 - 465101
MO1/6 – L/0 - 46009

Rik, Are you any further down the track with a list. I've 39-57, 50 Lucas parts manuals, the main bit that was giving me problems was the 'Type' info ( AC AG L etc.) I had originally come to think this was either 'Manufacturers Spec' codes or 'build operator' code. I think you are getting close to some understanding.

The /4/6 appears to be 'update changes' for say 1944 (4)and 1946 (6), these may not have occurred each year hence no /5's

The contract books look interesting as these may be the basis for the original variances ... i.e. agreed fitting for each unit/bike maker.

Unfortunately I have no access to these, are they available digitally somewhere ?
( have tried to open some of the links in these discussions but don't seem to link up properly)

email (option): rust_collector@bigpond.com

With regard to the Type info. Could it be something to do with the fixing procedure? ie

"3" is quoted in the Ariel code and they have a 3 bolt fixing
"4" for Norton which have a 4 bolt fixing
BSA--RE--Triumph are fixed with a clamp.

So some have tapped holes and some have press in pegs in the base, if it's relevant at all Norton has a clockwise rotation and RE are all slack wire advance

All very confusing Ron????

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

I have

Mo1.0 463810
AC20 1036

It jas the 4 brass inserts for the studs at underside.

I send rick some pics from it.

Here's my original plate on the magdyno of my first contract WD-C Enfield, Think it came from the factory like this, as it's a numbers matching bike, left behind in France. I have no reason to believe the magdyno was ever changed.



Date code November 1939.

Cheers,

Lex

email (option): welbike@welb***.net

You mean WD/C Lex! :smile: Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Sorry Ron, was just in time to change it!

Lex

email (option): welbike@welb***.net

Gents,

Roy mentions brass inserts for the peg on a 1936 mag, my 1937 dated mag also has brass inserts, my 39 mag does not.
When did they change to full alu version 38 or 39?

Cheers,

Rob

email (option): wd16h@telfort.nl

Hello everyone, my name is Aumkar and I'm from India. This thread has been a massive resource and I want to thank everyone for all the information. I'd like to contribute as well.

My bike is a WD Royal Enfield 350 Bullet. Dispatched from the Redditch factory on 18th December 1952 to London based freight forwarders Hales Bros. It is one of a batch of 750 dispatched in Dec‘52/Jan’53 to Hales for onward shipment to Madras Motors that were destined for the Indian Army. The bikes of course were WD spec as can be traced in historical photos, furthermore my Ammeter and Smith's speedo all have the chrome delete like the WD bikes did.

My MagDyno : M01L 46030...6/8/0? the last digit's stamping is pretty much destroyed.
L1 1153? <----

The Plate is Aluminum. I don't have the option to upload an image or else I would have attached it.

email (option): aumkarchandan@gmail.com

Hi Aumkar,

You can send the pictures to me, I'll post them for you. And please send a few pictures of the complete bike too! 😊

Jan

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Hi
I,ve just found an old Lister engine with what is obviously the wrong Magneto. It is a Lucas King of the road with a plate that reads.....

MO 1.4 465102
L1 8 40

I wonder if someone could tell me what it started life on?

Thanks
Michael.

email (option): mjgolden210@gmail.com

The L1 type seems to have been fitted to Royal Enfield. I have a couple of M01'4 listed with the part number 465102.

Production during August 1940, is likely to have been for a WD/C model, but it could have been supplied for any model then in service.

email (option): mjgolden210@gmail.com

There would be a market for the magneto which would fit most Enfields and the specification plate would certainly be desirable to someone building a late 1940 WD/C.

Presumably a brass plate at this date ?

Yes, brass plate.
It is just the mag, no dynamo.
Not sure where I'd track down someone rebuilding a WD/C, it would be better on the motorcycle than on the Lister engine it ended up on.

email (option): mjgolden210@gmail.com

I'd suggest a post in the "Sales" section here, preferably with a photo or two (it requires a separate photo host though but we can talk you through that or post a photo for you).

With a bit of luck, someone with a contract C6215 WD/C will be looking for this very magneto.