Ian's point on human nature is key.

I see many old bikes at rallies which would not have passed an MOT in the 60's never mind today.

Ditto, old tractors or "Agricultural Vehicles". An old tractor with dodgy steering or loose wheels nuts can do a lot of damage even driven slowly.

email (option): sacombsashtrees@hotmail.com

I know from experience working in a British Bike shop and from running my own business that the concept of the majority of enthusiasts being either knowledgeable or competent is a myth...Peoples skill and knowledge levels cover a wide range encompassing both ends of the scale and everything in between...

In fact I would say the majority are not fully competent...They are enthusiastic amateurs with no formal engineering or motorcycle related training and as such are likely to (and do) make mistakes...

That is not to denigrate anyone who is not yet very far up the learning curve as all these skills can be acquired with time and effort, or to diminish the efforts of the large number of very good restorers out there.

It is just a simple statement of fact...

You only have to work in a bike shop and see the number of bikes that fail MOTs through poor maintenance to realise that fact, let alone to consider the wider possibilities for errors when a machine is 'restored'...

I feel confident in stating with certainty that the number of machines on the road that are not roadworthy WILL rise if the MOT test is removed from the equation...
Can that be considered a good outcome?...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

I've read many a quote from you Ian about the nanny state and being wrapped up in cotton wool, how you should have the freedom to make your own decisions etc. Here's the government doing that and letting us decide for once and now you want regulations and inspections

If the government is proposing this it usually means they have made up their minds and our opinion is a formality. They work on percentages and the number of historic vehicles on the road is very little, we might see them all the time but most people don't. I hope the people replying to this survey are more positive and have more faith in the owners of these vehicles. It would be great to be given something from the government instead of them taking from us and having to pay out all the time. The last thing we want is more tests for vintage vehicles.

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

In fact I haven't suggested in my posts on this subject what the Government should or shouldn't do...

I have challenged the erroneous (IMO) idea that motorcycle enthusiast/owners can be regarded as generally competent...My experience clearly shows that not to be the case for a measurably large percentage of the group..

If that is so, then there is no more reason to remove the MOT test for this sector of vehicle owners than there is for the rest of the population..ie. all other vehicle owners...
However, the assumption for that group, I assume, is that they are not competent to maintain their own vehicles and the MOT test remains in place..

It seems to me it has little to do with 'the nanny state', what people would like or the fact the government is 'giving' us something..

Surely it is more to do with whether vehicles on the road are more safe or less safe....and more safe has to be the better option...

If you agree that not everyone affected by this change is fully competent then the result must be an increase in poorly maintained vehicles...and that comes right back to the reasons why the MOT was introduced originally...

Of course if you believe everyone is fully competent then my observations don't apply...Everything indicates however that the logic is sound...

Finally, I'm not arguing for more tests for vintage vehicles, only that removing this particular one may not actually improve things...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

We live in an age where everything is controlled by law at some level, and I agree its nice when some of these laws are relaxed and humans are allowed to use their common sense again.

There will obviously be consequences, if there are too many then the government will do its typical knee jerk reaction and bring in another misdirected law.

I don't think they are asking our opinion, its unlikely they ever will again after Brexit, I think they are trying to save money, which is something I'm also in favour of.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Of course...it's all about saving money...and there was me thinking there might be some logic involved in a government proposal... ..A basic error on my part...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

I'm rather with Ian on this, not that it directly affects me as I've been out of the UK for twenty years and living in a country with no motorcycle MOTs at all...and the standard of motorcycle maintenance on anything more than five or six years old is absolutely bloody atrocious.

Even in gatherings with UK motorcycles, I reckon that about two thirds appear to be 'hanging' and show loose or leaking suspension, unadjusted chains and badly angled brake arms. I can't believe that they are any better maintained or assembled than appearances suggest. I wouldn't ride home on most of the bikes that dealers advertise for sale.

Motorcycles are probably the least of the problem though as structural corrosion is not usually a significant factor and defects are often on view...extend the situation to 1970s superbikes and things are going to go wrong. Commandos with badly set-up isolastics are killers. Z900s shouldn't be out there on cracked old tyres....

As things stand, despite all the frayed cables and 50% efficient brakes, the fact is that accidents with pre-1960 vehicles just don't seem to be significant and the old MOT was a pretty haphazard once a year test anyway...it didn't seem to prevent a lot of rough bikes even when it was compulsory.

There is a world of difference between a properly garaged collection like Ron's and something like a VW Combi that spends the summer being driven around with half a dozen junkies crammed into it and the winter parked on the front garden of a Brighton squat. One system is never going to be right for those two extremes.

email (option): 79x100@gmail.com

You only have to work in a bike shop and see the number of bikes that fail MOTs through poor maintenance to realise that fact, let alone to consider the wider possibilities for errors when a machine is 'restored'..

I too have trade experience & used to MOT bikes most fails were small jap bikes mainly ones on there first MOT.Larger bikes were better maintained not many fails it seems the commuter bikes have a hard time. Most of the people I know that have exempt bikes have good access to workshop tools, mates with tools & experience most are decent mechanics brit bikes tend to make you a good mechanic, cant really see a problem with proposed law apart from rot boxes being dragged out of barns/sheds and got running for the road. I think a basic MOT would be a good idea as said just brakes/lights/steering/ suspension at a reduced rate but mainly aimed at cars/vans/trucks.... Dave

Is it not true that these proposals to extend MoT exemption reflect the numbers game in that the best bang for the MoT buck is to concentrate on the higher risk vehicles.......which are not, I am led to believe, older vehicles maintained and driven by enthusiasts. Statistically, the safety of old bikes and cars is a non-issue. Does Government go any further than that? Should it?

Down here we have "histeric registration" for vehicles over 30 years old.
It came into being in the 60's originally for vintage vehicles that could not pass modern roadworthy testing.
We have brake testers that my 1975 Silver Shadow failed and when I went for a license test on my bantam I failed that because it could not get to 60kph in the space allocated to do the emergency brake testing.

Modern vehicles are not allowed to drip oil as all.
And very few mechanics could tell the difference between aceptiable "period" oil leaking and a dribbleing mess.

So down here the club the bike owner has his bike registered through does the roadworthy testing.
The caveat on that should a club plated bike be found unroadworthy then the club looses it's accreditation so every members bike is deemed no longer registered.

It works reasonably well and clubs tend to be self policing as a historic plate is $ 58/ pa and full registration is $ 600 / pa

So it might just work.
We knock back a lot of bikes, particularly for old hard tyres with cracked side walls. I fact we are stricter than a normal rego inspection with the exception of brake function , oil leaks & emissions.

email (option): bsansw1@tpg.com.au