i am after some info if the allies used captured german bikes and if they did ( and i am sure they did) what markings did they use to identify. some pics would most welcome or point me in the right direction. many thanks all

email (option): fj1200@talktalk.net

email sent

This si all I could find for captured bikes and Kettenkrad, I have included Japanese and Italian as I thought you had wanted axis, rather than German. It looks like they didn't bother much with changing markings in some areas, though in Europe, they went for the D-Day star marking.



















































Hope they help, as I said, it would seem that in the desert and Far East, they didn't seem to change anything, including the number plates, though they may have had some kind of recognition signal or flag for aircraft. In Europe, where the RAF/USAF had domination over the skies and front lines could be rather fluid abetter recognition scheme was required.

email (option): stinkypete80@hotmail.com

Many thanks for the photos and replies.it has answered a few questions.

email (option): Fj1200@talktalk.net

The British and Americans didn't find it necessary to have an official system for taking over captured vehicles such as Germany did with the equipment that they captured and looted. Therefore, pretty well any field use was unofficial and markings were ad-hoc.

There is certainly evidence that a hand-painted invasion star was applied in North-West Europe, both to German and 'liberated' French motorcycles (which had often been in rear echelon service with the Wehrmacht).

Jack Dienst in his book 'A civilian in Uniform' deals quite extensively with his use of a captured BMW outfit in Italy. However, he points out that it wasn't without dangers. Regardless of any markings, the exhaust note of a flat twin was so distinctive that there was always the risk of a burst of bren fire if troops heard them coming and were alert for Germans.

There were blocks of census number allocated for captured vehicles.

C6000000-C6009999 Motor Cycles Captured etc.
A6016000-A6016499 Ambulances Captured etc.
Z6016500-Z6023999 Trucks Captured ect.
V6024000-V6024999 Vans Captured ect.
L6024500-L6041999 Lorries Captured ect.
H6042000-H6044499 Tractors Captured ect.
P6049500-P6049999 Amphibians Captured ect.
M6010000-M6015999 Cars Captured ect.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

cheers for that rob

email (option): fj1200@talktalk.net

Rob, I did think about those batches but I've never seen any evidence of them in wartime use in the field. M6069283 for instance was a VW Beetle so probably post-war production - these serial numbers would have continued in use until 1948 or so. Most accounts that i've read refer to having to leave behind captured cars etc. when units moved on or when officialdom found out about them.

Vehicles taken on strength for assessment and examination such as at MEE received numbers too.

Hi Rik

Interestingly I have found 3 Norton 16Hs in the postwar keycards with numbers in the above captured motorcycle block.

6002005 16ZB73 29611 Frame or possibly engine number
6002025 02ZB82 104949 """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""
6002081 18ZB02 10121 """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

These may have been machines that were captured by the enemy and then recaptured by our troops or there may be another explanation?

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Rob, that's interesting - 104949 (without the W) would be a pre-war series and could be a Dunkirk survivor. (W)10121 and (W)29611 were built too late for the fall of France but could have been Greece / Crete casualties (any from North Africa would probably have simply been taken back on strength, I assume ?)

Where were they demobbed ?

I have this picture in my collection showing a captured German Horch in the desert, the number on the bonnet 1340075 is part of a block:-

1334961-1340960 Allotted to M.E.

So it looks like any of these numbers could be used on a vehicle captured in the Middle East during the war.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk