Does any one know any info on 16H frames,the two here are a friends,both have traces of olive drab paint,one has frame no W32600 and the other 57479 with out W prefix but has a tag with LV7.NC.4168.B2 with it.

Some of the guys are going to chime in with all sorts of info for you, but I just wanted to comment on the frame without the W prefix, oddly, that doesn't mean it's not WD, mine is 16131 without the W, still a WD bike, no idea why some had the W omitted.

True not all WD 16Hs had a W before the number. However the one shown above with the W looks very suspicious. Note the different size of the numbers!

It's not uncommon for stamp font sizes to be mixed...I've seen it numerous times...

BSA did it themselves at the factory so I'm sure it will have happened in REME worksshops...

The picture below of a 1939 M24 engine is an example...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

off topic, I like the door handle on the shed

Both frames are WD as they both have the field stand lug. That means they are 1941 onwards. I'd have to look the numbers up in the book to say any more

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

A quick look in the book says W32600 is from contract V7353 July 1940. So I would say that number has been stamped on a later frame. I've never seen different sized stamps on Norton's from the factory, but this has been done in a WD workshop.

The second frame 57479 is a number that falls in a 10,000 gap between 2 contracts, C10217 and C11082. It would date it mid 1941. Maybe Rik can help here.

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

Field stand lugs were out before 41 were they not?

Odd that the numbers are different sizes, but my guess is that it's legit. Rik! Where are you!! :-)

It's nice to see a couple of decent-looking 16H frames rather than the scrap that so often turns up.

As 'H' says, these are both 'late' type WD frames but unfortunately, these 'late' changes such as the field stand lug, re-inforced tank lug and strengthened gearbox lug all came in fairly early - the latter two by late 1940 and the stand lug by mid-1941 at the latest. I know of no subsequent changes which could help with frame dating.

C (sometimes shown as 'V')7353 although a 1940 contract actually continued in production into 1941 and the last built appear to have had the field stand lug.

I am also of the opinion that neither of the stampings shown are Norton factory impressions. However, most contracts included 10% spare frames and after 1940, these seem to have been delivered unstamped. It seems likely that the intention was for the army workshops to stamp them using the number from the replaced frame. There are sufficient frames not bearing a 'W' prefix to suggest that the workshops often didn't use the letter stamp.

Rob vdB's list of surviving machines only includes two 50000 series numbers and one of these has no 'W'. There is no surviving contract evidence for this missing block of 10,000 machines which is too many to be explained by RAF or RN contracts. However, the gap comes at the point where BSA were about to deliver 10000 lightweights which were then cancelled in favour of M20s...it would be a convenient explanation if Norton did the same thing but overlooked that a block of numbers had been reserved and not used.

I can't explain though why a workshop might have used them on a replacement frame unless it was simpy a mistake. That said, it could be that the numbers have something to do with its post-war civilian use.

Are there any numbers stamped on the head lug, under the area normally covered by the fuel tank ?

The aluminium spare part tag is interesting. Part No. 4168 was listed from contract C10217 onwards (W45001 on) This would date it from June 1941 onwards. 4168 related to the frame with bearing races but no loose parts. Prior to that, the frames were listed with studs etc.

What I should have said Samuel, is they both have the field stand lug and pillion foot rest lug, as the pre 41 frames had a bolt-on foot rest lug. You would expect the foot rest lug to be part of the frame and the field stand lug to clamp on, but it's the other way round

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk