Hello all.

I search for the dimensions of the old English license plate.
if possible, also the font.

email (option): thb-support@hotmail.nl

Is this rear number plate for a motorcycle? Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

I guess what Ron means to say that before and during the war number plates were painted by a signwriter directly on the number plate holder.

Don't think that before the war the aluminium plates were made in silver and black?? do know cars is a whole different story with cast plates etc.

Would like to know more about it too!

Anyway, to get the right wartime font, easiest is to order online or buy in the UK the vinyl letters and numbers, that are still available, paint the numberplate white first, let thoroughly dry, then apply the (black is easiest) numbers, spray over with gloss black, and remove stickers, revealing the number.

Can email some pictures.

Cheers,

Lex

email (option): welbike@welbXXX.net (think about this!)

Would the registration number ever be painted directly onto the rear mud guard?

Need to put my reg number on mine somewhere but like just having the central brake light without a plate holder

email (option): martynhillyard@msn.com

From September 1939 onwards, military vehicles no longer had a civilian registration number... Number plates were still fitted by the motorcycle factories, but were now often used for the census number or arm of service number...

Jan

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Jan, you are right ofcourse, but for everybody that needs to have one fitted, for legal reasons, what would be the best thing?? And were the aluminium pressed plates there before the war??

Cheers,

Lex

email (option): welbike@welbXXX.net (think about this!)

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

It's not easy with a later-war machine as no number plate system looks truly 'in period'.

Strictly speaking, number plates are supposed to be on a flat surface and mounted vertically (few modern bikes comply...)

Years ago, we used to use stick-on numbers on the rear mudguards of trials bikes but we used to get told off for it, even then.

I think that the choice is between a slightly earlier number plate bracket (there was only one type for Norton, with the 'ear' for the MT110 rear lamp)or to use a temporary fixture which can be removed for display. There should of course also be number plate illumination which is not possible with the military tail lamp.

The number plate that Ron is showing above (on a very sweet and clean looking machine btw) :-) WHERE is the best place to get hold of one of those plates? My bike has a 1950's plate fitted, which, although looks generally ok, would probably benefit from having something a bit more "period" fitted... Any UK based suppliers that wont cost me my mortgage?

email (option): fozzie001@hotmail.com

You often see those style plates at jumbles and so on. I think they just call them 'Vintage' Guys like John Budgen and Bantam John sell them. But Alan Swainson makes them also. He's getting very old now His email is alanswainson@hotmail.com. Another forum member sometimes makes period plates, but he can contact you himself if he has anything. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Timely thread, as I'm currently pondering on rear number plates for the 3HW triumph.

Looking at various pix (on this forum) and the 'Uncle Dick' photo (Triumph ID thread) the rear number plate on war time triumphs look very much like the post war Cub/Tina/Beagle - with the top pressing/arch sized for an MT?? type rear light, somewhat narrower than the later lights.

Can anyone illuminate me on what rear light was actually fitted?
And if anyone one of the above can be modified into something reasonably similar, please?

email (option): ginantonik@tiscali.co.uk

Again a 3HW wouldn't have been fitted with a number plate. But of course we must fit one. As you say, the pre war number plate is similar to the Tiger Cub and others. Except that the top bridge on the post war items is rolled in a sort of tube shape, whereas the pre war ones had an open bridge with sharp edges. Ace Classics sell quite nice repros. An MT 110 tail light with this plate would be correct. I have an original MT 110 lamp to fit to my 3SW when I get round to it. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Thanks Ron.

I was wondering about the 'rolled over' top bridge, couldn't quiet confirm how it should be, in the pix I had.

Another pix of your 3sw for my file.

RE - 'shouldn't have been fitted' ..
the Uncle Dick triumph has the pre-war number plate as does the 'factory' photo (earlier on this site) of the 'official' WD bike .....

Perhaps the BSA was the only supplier with long continuous supply through the war allowing a standardized product ?
And perhaps Matchless ?

email (option): ginantonik@tiscali.co.uk

While looking for a triumph number plate, dropped on -

NSA Motorcycles - uk

Who do a rear number plate like the one in the 1st pix of Ron Piers for £30 + vat.
Ace classics currently do not list a triumph one.

email (option): ginantonik@tiscali.co.uk

Nigel, please pay attention or I'll come round and smack your leg Uncle Dick's bike is I'm sure a pre war 3H. Not a 3HW. there is a difference. By the production of 3HW's firstly at Warwick and then Meriden, Number plates were obsolete. Just a fag end MT1 lamp fitted to the mudguard and nothing else. unfortunately you can't see the back end in many shots.

Again from what I can deduce. Apart from the few Velo MAF's, the only bike with a black exhaust system. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Hello fellow fighters.
Have watched the discuss and Have learned a lot again.
But still have no size and no font type.

I hope to receive it.

Thank you very much for all the effort.

Best Gerrit

email (option): thb-support@hotmail.nl

Drifted off subject, have we Gerrit.

At least I have a (couple) of answers for my Triumph - either a pre-war type 'non roll' top 'plate (Ron 3SW) or a fag-end jobbie (Ian's 3hw)


SIZE - all my pre-war plates are larger than the 50's plates I remember and really need a larger number to make them look right - I'll check on size and the font us for you - as I like the 'hand-painted' type fonts (i have access to a laser to cut my numbers in vinyl).
As someone suggested - it looks better to use the vinyl number as a mask for paint.

FONT - I would guess that hand painted n/p's were the order as I don't think cut vinyl numbers were about, so a font (there are thousands !) that looks 'sign writer' would be appropriate.
Unless you find a real Sign-writer and do the job properly - they would probably size the lettering as well, to make it look right .....

email (option): ginantonik@tiscali.co.uk

Hi Gerrit. The numbers on my plate above are the standard official 2 1/2" number plate font as supplied in low tack stencils from http://www.axholmesigns.co.uk/.

The black square that they are painted on is roughly 7" x 7" but you can ease that a bit smaller depending on your number plate bracket. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Number plate font sizes were laid down to a standard (overall width, height,the thickness of the actual letter/number, spacing) for both front and rear number plates...

This is still the case today...

I have the 'old' info. somewhere...the question is where? ...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Ian, please have think, I'd be interested too! The font used now is totally different to the old font.

I have searched high and low, to find a font in the computer, but there's nothing that comes close.

I could scan the numbers that I have here, (1 to 0) but have only some letters an A,C,F,K,M,P,Q,S and a Z.

This is the font:


Sizes btw. are 2-1/2" for the rear (rounded numbers like"O" etc. slightly bigger ofcourse) and the smaller front ones are 1-3/4".

Cheers,

Lex

email (option): welbike@welbXXX.net (think about this!)

Ian Wright

Number plate font sizes were laid down to a standard (overall width, height,the thickness of the actual letter/number, spacing) for both front and rear number plates...

This is still the case today...

I have the 'old' info. somewhere...the question is where? ...Ian

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Jan, have been looking for the original of that scan, where did it come from?

Have 2 pages from "Motorcycles and how to manage them" 28th edition, from the 40's, no font is mentioned here, but the sizes are.





Cast aluminium plates are mentioned, but not the pressed ones, begin to believe this is a postwar invention.

Cheers,

Lex

email (option): welbike@welbXXX.net (think about this!)

looking at some common fonts and comparing with the 'official' document

ARIAL & CALIBRI are pretty close, but you need something between Bold and Regular set (I use 'Bold' and it don't look right!)
You would also need to shuffle height and spacing to required 1/4" or so.

Print on paper, cut out and hold in place with PritStick then roll paint on.

I once used AVERY label paper as a mask - DONT - took me ages to get the label off!
You can also get 'low-tack' masking film, but many printer inks wont 'take' (I think a laser printer is ok) - once used this stuff successfully for a 'flame job' as I'm no good with an air-brush.

Better still find a sign writer or one of those guys that do Pub Menu boards ....?

email (option): ginantonik@tiscali.co.uk

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Yes, Jan, that is the first I looked! but it's not in any of the 3 Norton ones I searched!! perhaps Messrs. Norton found themselves above the law?

Just looked in the Panther section of my archive, and in the 1931 version it is mentioned, also that there was a change in 1930 or so.



Nige, I looked at the fonts you mentioned, but to me as someone who was in graphics/printing most of his working life they are completely different.....

This is what I did some years ago, but not finished with it yet, the "3" is completely wrong here.



Cheers,

Lex

email (option): welbike@welbXXX.net (think about this!)

Lex

I did say close - not exact.
As you will be aware there are a VAST number of fonts - i limited myself to easily found Microsoft type fonts.

Between my CAD software and some Design/Art software I have, there are over 3000 different fonts !!!!!!!!
Many of which I cannot see any difference !

Being picky - your '9, 4 & 7' are nothing like the Fig 30 -

But then again my suggestions are nothing like either ......

Find a sign writer and have it done properly .

email (option): ginantonik@tiscali.co.uk

They would have been sign written, and each sign writer would have done it "there" way, so the font would be different depending on who did it. You can't say one is correct and another wrong.

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

Well it's like this Officer..

'They would have been sign written, and each sign writer would have done it "there" way, so the font would be different depending on who did it. You can't say one is correct and another wrong.'. ...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

The 'font' if we must call it that is 'Competent Signwriter with a 3/8" Brush'

If the dimensions given above are kept to, with vertical and horizontal lines true and curves of even radius, the natural result will be correct. Everything comes from the width of the brush and the need to overlap changes of direction.

Period photographs of UK registered motorcycles are not scarce. The answer is to look at as many as possible and perhaps discuss them with someone like Tony Pearson at Axholme Signs. For a reasonable cost, he'll put everything on a single stencil (after sending a draft for approval first).

Luckily I still have the services of a traditional signwriter who does all my number plates, Div Signs, unit numbers and any lining and gold leaf work on my civvy bikes...

I think he has done just about every bike I've had since about 1971...

Unfortunately it's a skill set which is in sharp decline generally...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

email (option): welbike@welbXXX.net (think about this!)

Lex, there is no mandatory font for pre-1973 vehicles. Don't forget that the UK never had officially issued plates.

If the signwriting complies with the dimensions then it's legal. It simply has to be clearly legible.

The sort of commonsense practice which was once so prevalent in the United Kingdom, prior to it signing up for a German-dominated European Union with rules in triplicate for everything.

['Lex, there is no mandatory font for pre-1973 vehicles.']...

Yes...I've seen a few original pre war plates with a 'seriphed' style font...

Post war, up till the introduction of reflective plates, the vast majority of plates conformed to the sizes laid down, being either sign written, using self adhesive characters or pressed aluminium plates..

Even the early reflective plates used self adhesive characters so the spacing and plate size could be 'adjusted'...

However, before reflective plates, it wasn't uncommon to see plates hand painted by the owner and nobody seemed to mind as long as they were easily read...I've done a few like that myself..Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

I have had a pressed aluminum plate made for my Manx, I spoke to the people that make them and as Rik has stated, there's no legal size for pre 73 black and white plates. So they've made it using front number plate sizes letters which is perfectly legal (officer )

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

Rik says theres no mandatory FONT. The letters must conform to the correct sizes as previously mentioned.

I think the basic answer is that until the late 50's there was no FONT even mentioned, just size and spacing to ensure its easy to read. and satisfy the MOT'er.
Pressed number plates were made pre-war but were much more common post war, as for stick on letters ?

Luckily there are very few police about these days of cost cutting - just don't fall off in a hedge ......

email (option): ginantonik@tiscali.co.uk

MOT's didn't start till about 1960. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk