Here is NigP's uncle Dick. I can see from the forks and other things that it is a 39/40 Triumph. At first I wondered if it was an impressed 3H or T70/80. But I see from O&M that 143 3H's were supplied under contract C7162 and mixed in with a large contract of 3SW's some of which start with a 20 census number. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

What a great photograph.

Unfortunately, the Ministry of Supply ledgers shed no light on this but I think that your theory is correct, Ron. RASC contract C7162 and a contemporaneous RAOC contract (C8079) were the two cut short by the factory bombing, although there wasn't final agreement of the costs until 1942 !

It would seem likely that Triumph were allowed to make up as many machines as possible using existing stock or parts and that some lucky devils received the OHV engined machine.

This one seems to have a bright chromed exhaust and silencer plus saddle springs etc. and to have had a screw-on tank badge ?

Does it have what we seem to have decided is the civilian type headlamp rim clip ? It certainly has a ribbed glass rather than a 'Difusa' which was the military norm.

It's a bit like the Model 18 Nortons with fork bump rubbers and other WD bits. We don't know quite how they were ordered, but photographic evidence shows they existed.

Thanks for sharing it, Nig.

email (option): 79x100(at)gmail.com

Hmmm came out better that I thought it would - technology does have some uses.
Better look more closely at some of our old photos.

Interesting mish-mash of parts, loved the headlight hood - it does beg the question - what is authentic on these bikes....

For many years, I didn't realize how original my ES2 was, but it appears that when it was made it had all the INTER parts fitted (all offered as options by Norton), except for the 21" front wheel and of course the engine - hence so many people over the years wanting to buy it - to convert it into an Inter.

Norton were also famous for selling bikes which were completely different to the Sales Brochures ...?

email (option): ginantonik@tiscali.co.uk

Quick update on 'Uncle Dick' - over weekend race meeting been talking to my uncle Ray (his fathers brother in law is 'Uncle Dick);

Seems he was an ambulance driver @ Dunkirk, he was told to unload the injured and set fire to the Ambulance and wait to be captured with the injured.

He disobeyed the order and followed his commanding officer onto the beached and home.

Registered as 'KIA' he turned up at my grans house, in Canadian uniform?
He was not initially recognized by Ray's Gran, but given some water and was to be sent away as a tramp, when Grandfather recognized him ......
Rays family and connections are all Nottinghamshire.

I have no idea if he deserted, or was in a 'mental state', however he returned to his unit as a driver and was posted to -

Askern in 1940-1, where this photo must have been taken, as he then posted to the far east.

Bizarrely I happen to live in Askern (just outside Doncaster) ?


Unfortunately for this story - my 3HW smells of curry, so....................
Get these stories now before the die .....

email (option): ginantonik@tiscali.co.uk

I don't think that is a black out mask, but an anti dazzle device for driving in mist and fog.
I have seen a similar gadget in a 1950-ish motorcycle mag.

RON - to me (with the original pix) it was not clear if the bike was an impressed 3H, an early 3H WD order or a pre-war bike fitted with the 3HW engine - as the cylinder head is not clear.

Someone pointed out the oil feed line up the forward p/rod tube - which I thought went to a tank mounted oil pressure gauge. I can see no evidence of tank mounted gauges and the speedo is fork mounted - so I must be confusing Triumph models - its probably a feed to the rocker assembly ?

I have an original 1939 operator/maintenance manual for a 3H, which I have been using for reference - as usual, you cannot believe these things (thought it was only Norton!) as it shows a tank mounted gauges.

There are very few TRUE restorations which I could compare, but I have found a Bonham catalogue photo of a 3H which I believe is 'true' and from the same photographic perspective and yes I am finally converted - it is a 3H - even down to the natty cast alloy front n/plate mounts.


RON - If am being a bit provocative, its after a mauling by the VMCC 'gentleman' on my last run out with them - I am more than p****-**f by arguments of what is/is not original/genuine and other such ****.

At least on this forum, we have people who actually are running/repairing/restoring bikes and really know something about them .......
And we can all enjoy 'rivet counting moments' on some of the excellent restorations you have all done.
I have the greatest respect for you all.


Pre-war Nortons are notoriously difficult to judge what is right/wrong (not helped by dodgy product Brochures - reverse lever 1932/3 ?).
Calthorpes, Douglas, et al can be argued about as there are so few of them about -

But I did think that WD bikes would be more consistent, with the wealth of WD data available ........ but after reading this forum ....... no.

Keeps it all interesting ....

email (option): ginantonik@tiscali.co.uk

[' But I did think that WD bikes would be more consistent, with the wealth of WD data available ........ but after reading this forum ....... no.

Keeps it all interesting ....']

I used to think that as well but frequently it seems that many specifications have an exception at some point...

Whatever you do don't get into doing a G3L Matchless...They have to be the worst case in this regard... ...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

G3L my first pre-war bike - luckily I never restored, just rode it.

email (option): ginantonik@tiscali.co.uk

Nigel. You can clearly see the instrument panel on Uncle Dick's bike. This would include a low pressure oil gauge, an ammeter, a light switch and the central wandering lamp. The speedo was never in the tank but always on the forks. So under that strange hood must be the headlamp without switch panel. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Sorry Ron, but not so clear to my eyes, on the original the horizontal line just behind the filler cap is an extension of the background wall.

There is 'something' at a slight angle behind the fuel cap, but didn't think it was the Bakelite panel as they are relatively small on these bikes.

I bow to your better photo interpretation skills.

All irrelevant really as it is obviously a T80 in so many other ways - even though the tip-up of the silencer looks non standard.

email (option): ginantonik@tiscali.co.uk

I don't think it's a WD bike or even impressed, you can clearly see (if you click on the piccy and blow it up) That its got an illuminated speedo. And there's definately something on the tank.Oh! and all that chrome! Could it be a prewar bike but with the picture taken postwar? Maybe the number on the mudguard is the registration number, I cannot see a "C"

Well an impressed civilian bike might well have had features like Chrome or speedo illumination, and certainly no need for any form of black out hood post war. Uncle Dick's bike looks like it has a coat of drab paint. It's definitely a 3H or T80, my moneys on a 3H. Here are some pre war impressed Triumphs with Chrome exhausts. Tiger 100's for some lucky buggers! I'd have to check my parts lists, but I'm sure the pre war lightweights had a metal panel in the tank. The Bakelite panel was fitted to Speedtwin's and T100's Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

K H - not post war, though it looks 'staged' - spent rest of war in Far East then emigrated to Australia.

Illuminated speedo ..... your eyes are better than mine, to see anything which indicates that, other than as we all agree it is a pre-war spec machine.

If no 'C' mark - there would be some lettering for a 'normal' registration - probably something like DT (Doncaster) or WW (Wakefield) if locally registered.

Can anyone pick up some information from his uniform and perhaps the shoulder badge ?

Ron - Always understood that the pre-war singles had a Bakelite panel (repro's available via Ace) - though as ever, I stand corrected.



The main reason I had Ron publish the pix, apart from bike interest sake - is that it all seems a strange coincidence that I am rebuilding a 3HW and live in Askern were this photo could (only?)have been taken and I didn't know this member of the family existed (as I say - emigrated immediately after war).

I guess at the beginning of the war, before wartime procedures became entrenched, all sorts of things happened.

So many things are possible..

email (option): ginantonik@tiscali.co.uk

Yes I've checked in my 1939 parts list and all models (there are 11) with the exception of the two economy models 3SE and 5SE share the same Bakelite tank panel. Somewhere I've seen metal panels. Probably post war bikes? Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

There were steel tank panels just after the war on rigid tele fork models...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com