This item is listed in the "List of Tools" on the last page of the later black covered Big4 Drivers Handbook (Book No. 100/NC2).

1 Tool roll container (Leather) for fixing to person



And this appears to be the Tool Roll container in question. A small batch appeared on Ebay some years ago, NOS in cardboard boxs.











I'm intrigued by the dates on the box, March 1943 could be the date of manufacture or possible when the condition of the item was inspected in store?

October 1955 it appears it was in storage at Chilwell and it was inspected again?

Incredible that they were kept for so long for a vehicle which was obsolete before the end of the war.

The use of the item is also rather odd, it would seem that the vehicle tool kit would fit inside this bag and be worn on the belt, but why would a member of the Big4 crew need to carry the vehicle tool kit away from the vehicle?

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Also, what tools from the list were in the bag?...I can't imagine it included the jack for example... ....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

No the jack won't fit!!

Got same from Ian some years ago at Netley, it's still unopened in the box...

Maybe only the stuff in the foreground was in the small pouch??




Some B4 Jacks.

Cheers,

Lex

email (option): welbike@welxxx.net

Rob, these bags were also listed for the 16H so were presumably stocked until the last 16Hs were disposed of. In general that seems to have been around 1957.



I've never seen any evidence of them being worn so assume that they were actually carried in the panniers (or the side car) in most cases. It is clear that the standard Norton tool roll (also described as 'leather', but was it Rexine also ?) was on the small side for the early toolkits, certainly if the additional 'Tools and equipment to scale' were included.

There are a couple of references in the MoS ledgers, both dating from 1942 which suggests that they were probably not supplied prior to then and that they became standardised afterwards.

C11082 - 18/6/1942 - "Leather tool bag to be supplied for belt - 10,000"

C13908 - 6/9/1942 - "Leather tool bag to be supplied for tool roll to enable rider to carry tool roll in (sic) belt"

....So if this last comment is correct, the whole tool roll was meant to fit in rather than additional items...but as far as I can tell, the standard tool roll, inclusive 7" pliers and gearbox spanner etc. most certainly don't fit in the Rexine bag, even allowing for the fact that they have become hard beyond use ( I bought one too...)

So it was for the 16H as well, I don't remember seeing anything in writing for a BSA version and it doesn't seem to be universal with "NC" (Norton Cycles) written on the box, so it seems even more odd that Norton riders could carry away their tool kits but riders of other makes couldn't.

Curiouser and curiouser.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Careful Rob, or Ian and the BSA boys will be back with some snidey comment about Norton reliability...

I'm sure no one would do such a thing Rik

Maybe they took the tools away because there were thieving b@stards around then too..?

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

Bugger me! I bought one 15-16 years ago at W&P or Southsea from a bloke who had loads of them. Mostly they were in quite a bad state. I never knew what they were till now Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

['Careful Rob, or Ian and the BSA boys will be back with some snidey comment about Norton reliability...']

Snidey comments apart I can't come up with a logical reason for the existence of these tool pouches...Maybe that explains why there were thousands of them sat in a warehouse somewhere...

Of course from now on I will expect to see every Norton rider wearing one...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

"P.I.P" on the box lable shown stands for "Packed in Preservative" or sometimes "Packed, Inspected, Preserved".............this packing, if not involving cosmolene grease, used impregnated preservative paper and card.............the condition and life-span of such packed items was very much down to how items were stored, and hot or damp climates or less than perfect conditions accelerated deterioration.........

Thus, although possibly originally made and packed in 1943, these items were clearly examined and re-packed several years later at the Central Ordnance Depot at Chilwell............this applied to all other parts, etc.............

Worth noting that a large quantity of these toolbags, new and in the boxes, along with a multitude of other similarly packed/re-packed Norton WD parts were imported from Greece a few years ago now............seems that items re-packed at Chilwell in the mid-1950s were thereafter exported/supplied to the Greek military from UK stocks held at Chilwell and other Ordnance Depot's............

As per the first picture on this thread does anybody have a photo of the earlier "leather" not rexine tool roll container. Or even better, have one for sale?

Keith, the Rexine version has leather ends and straps and matches the M&I Manual drawing. I'd strongly suspect that they were all leathercloth...I can't see why a bag cut from leather would need the edges of the flap stitching...Rexine does need the edge turning or it will fray.

The tool roll in Lex's pre-war photo on the other hand, does look to be leather as the flaps are not hemmed. It's quite possible that by the time the bag was introduced, all non-essential use of leather had been replaced by leathercloth.

Rik

Ian Wright

['Careful Rob, or Ian and the BSA boys will be back with some snidey comment about Norton reliability...']

Snidey comments apart I can't come up with a logical reason for the existence of these tool pouches...Maybe that explains why there were thousands of them sat in a warehouse somewhere...

Of course from now on I will expect to see every Norton rider wearing one...Ian

Only from contract C11082 onwards...over to you, Horror !

I wonder how easily they'd even fit onto a 1937 pattern belt...and how easy would that be in full marching order ?

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk