Does anyone have a current email address or working Fax for Russell Motors?
Are they still in business?
Mike in the Arizona Desert - Frustrated.

email (option): mikemargolis@cox.net

They don't have email, but google them and you can get their fax number.

http://www.russellmotors.co.uk/
Dave

email (option): jeepfinger@blueyonder.co.uk

Hi,

I also wanted to order few bits via e-mail.

After many searches, I did find a mail address, but the email
Bounced back as not working.

I called them and talked with Les,
And he said that they quote by fax only..

email (option): noam10@gmail.com

Noam. (and others)

Thanks very much, I have russell's fax number and very unfortunately, I am getting a message that the number is no longer in service. etc.
Mike

email (option): mikemargolis@cox.net

Hi Mike Leave of the first 0 and replace with 44

That should sort it. Its cos your abroad

Steam driven faxes. Quaint! I didn't think anyone bothered with faxes anymore.

The trouble is, Les is well in his 70's and never used a computer. When his brother Geoff left the business, he took the computer with him. Which doesn't bother Les at all.

Try the number as stated with the international code again. Otherwise email me and I'll phone him for you.

It's a bank holiday here on Monday so not sure if he'll be in Tue or Wed as he usually has Mondays off anyway.

Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Hi,

First,
Sorry about the missing digits on the business card I sent.

When I put it and checked, it was all there...
You can click on it, in order to see the full image..

Yes Douglas,
I agree..
When Les told me that they only do faxes, I just searched
For it elsewhere..

I mean, Les is a great guy, (He gave me that card when I was there)
But to get a fax, send, make sure that it got there,
And then check daily for reply, or maybe there was a reply,
But the line was busy or on a waiting call, and so on...

I am sure that they must be losing business because of this fax thing..

Noam.

Strange..
Now the card looks OK..

email (option): noam10@gmail.com

Les is in his 70s, I have been dealing with him and various branches of his family for nearly 50 years, on and off.

Having been in the old bike business, and been driven to despair by it, I am amazed Les has not thrown in the towel years ago.
If anyone is having real trouble getting through perhaps if they email me a list of their wants I can simply print it out and send it by snail mail?

Personally I dont trust fax machines,my wife uses them at work [NHS] and often the fax never arrives, they are in the stupid position of having to confirm the thing arrived, by phone.

I have decided that the secret of life is that technology is bollox.

email (option): deadsheds [ at ] yahoo.com

Ron. Fellows. Thank you all. The list is pretty large - - probably not something practical to do by phone, although I am deeply appreciative, of your offer. I have taken the extraordinary (and expensive) measure to mail the list of parts. This was done yesterday via US Priority mail, and should take 7 - 10 days. I will also keep trying the various Fax suggestions.

We are living by our computers and not being techno-savvy is already the equivalent of being hugely disadvantaged. Businesses not up to par will be left in the dust. Which is not a nice thing for long running shops like Russell Motors, which has History and established following.... And, which will be difficult to do without.

Thanks again, Mike in the Desert

email (option): mikemargolis@cox.net

Kieth. Thank you. I will keep trying. Praying each time to the FAX god that my parts list is recieved. Thx. Mike in the Desert.

email (option): mikemargolis@cox.net

Kieth. I did as you suggested, and my Fax went thru this morning...
and hasbeen confirmed OK!.

Kieth, "You the man!" Thanks Bro...

email (option): mikemargolis@cox.net

Your welcome!

"Which is not a nice thing for long running shops like Russell Motors, which has History and established following"

No offence but thats a very American way to look at it.

all very well in the normal run of things, but as I said Les is in his 70s, no one else seems to have his knowledge or keenness for the old stuff.

That side of the business might well die with Les, its done all right for decades, we all get tired. I know I did and I simply shut down the business overnight.
Look upon it as one of our english eccentricities, and live with it while it lasts.

His system works well enough for him as it is.

email (option): deadsheds [ at ] yahoo.com

I love Russell motors, they've been good to me. it's Les and the twins now. I think the best way of doing orders is by post, maybe after a phone call. don't forget they aren't open on sundays or mondays and close early on sats. I live down the road from them and love walking by. They have a busy business also doing MOTs and selling and fitting tyres for modern bikes and scooters. I'm hoping they'll be around for a long time yet. They've always been so helpful to me with my M20. all the best all out there and just a general comment, this is a great forum I really enjoy all the comments, help and expertise. peter

I'm also one of the fortunates to have been dealing with Russell's for years, before computers et-all..........I can still remember when their shop window displayed new M20's and G3L's all built up from NOS parts in stock........

I was also in the fortunate position of being a Met police Officer stationed in Wandsworth, with Russell's on my "patch"...........advantage or not, but I've been fortunate enough to look behind the counter so to speak.........

At the end of the day, they remain a primary source for an ever-dwindling stock of original WD parts for BSA's, Norton's, Matchy's and Ariel's...........plus some Triumph stuff too........the shop's public side of the business is kept very busy with day-to-day MoT's, servicing, etc, and the older stuff is, well, let's face it, now a niche market but still an ever-increasing lucrative resource........if they have the parts you seek, which is likely, they very much still have the advantage, internet, email, etc, or not............Les now does this well after retirement age, perhaps as a perverse semi-retirement hobby, and works single-handed.......and therefore can choose when, where and how he wants to run this side of his business............they certainly don't appear to rely on it as the other side of the business seems to be very busy regardless......

You can't and won't change Les.......London old-boy.......if he can't be bothered with something he simply says "F&%£ *t !" and shuts up shop and goes home.......I've seen it many times before.............patience is the key here, and if old methods of communication are required then so be it, even if it causes a delay, because I can assure you that if you are seeking the smallest original part he will find it for you if he has it.....but you need to go at his pace, not yours !! Paying money yes, but he is actually doing you a favour at the end of the day and if the service isn't quite up to modern standards and technology then it doesn't bother Les at all.....plenty of other customers waiting.............

It won't last forever, but we should value and understand that some people just work in a way many of us have since forgotten............

But in a perverse slant, this old fashioned service in dealing with old bike parts compliments a 70-odd year old machine to a degree, don't you think...?

email (option): sjmwdbikemad@aol.co.uk

I have always said that with the British Governments supply chain policy of 70 years ago and firms like Russell Motors who have built businesses off the back of the surpluses it generated, we have had the happy luxury of running late 30s style bikes with a spares back up that far exceeds that of many much later machines...

From my point of view that meant I could run an M20/21 for years as part of my primary transport, not as a part time, limited use hobby machine....

This 'fools paradise' cannot last and companies like Freemans of Stroud, Pride and Clarks, Lewis's of Weybridge, Owen Brothers etc. etc. have all gone to the wall one by one and the seemingly endless piles of spares are finally running out...

Russell Motors will follow the rest at some point and, as always, the remains of their stock will be dispersed amongst various dealers...It will be more difficult to source and probably more costly as well at the end of the day...

For all their shortcomings, which lets face it, largely revolve around the fact we can't get instant service in a world where we think that's our right, I'm 100% sure we will wish they could come back once they've gone....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Back in the 1960s Russells, or Myers motors as it was then, had two shops in Falcon road,the other now long gone was almost opposite by the side of the railway.
They had another one in Forest Hill selling used parts, that was opposite where John Surtee's dads shop was, and a yard, of the old fashioned bomb site version, in Venner road Sydenham SE26, where the breaking of bikes was done; I remember seeing a long line of RAC sidecar outfits waiting in the road to be dismantled just to get them into the yard.
I have, as a skint lad, been got out of many a problem by their supply of used parts, mostly by being content to use their method of working.

Later when I went[god help me]into the old bike business I did very good business with their trade van driven by a great character, old Eddie Iflen ex Brooklands racer.

Its an English bike business of the old fashioned kind that we'll never see again, cherish it and go along with it's quirks while you can, or, in that immortal english phrase, eff off and see if you can get it somewhere else.

Personally I am indebted to the guy who used to run the Forest Hill scrap yard for showing a young lad that a a decent bacon sarnie is a very good way to remove grease from your hand with no ill effects

email (option): deadsheds [ at ] yahoo.com

Actually there is a lot of good sense in not being on line particularly in a highly specalised business.
If a customer goes to the effort of actually writing down what they want and posting/faxing it to you then you are fairly sure that the customer actually want's to do business with you and is not some cheapskate searching for the cheapest possible parts that they can find and doing comparison shopping for parts you will never sell them.
You can blow hundreds of hours doing box loads of quotes for people that have no intention of buying anything.

Then there is the problem of continuity.
With emails there is likely to be a lot of individual emails, each one referenceing the previous that have to be kept in thread order and require you to sit down and remember where you were the last time and what you were thinking when you formulated your last reply.
Then there are the morons who expect you to drop every thing and answer their email the instant you get it, and when they don't get an answer in 25 nanasecondds send you multiple copies of the same message getting increasingly angrier each time because they are so important and you are ignoring them.

Then there is keyboard skills.
I can writ about 20 times faster than I can type and I am not a 70 year old with stiff sore fingers.
Next we have vision problems.
Reading from a back lit screen is very tiresome on the eyes, particularly if you are getting on & your eyesight is not as strong as it used to be. Reading from a page is a lot lot easier, aask any one with a Kindle or Ebooks.
Getting fonts up to a size and weight that can easily be read usually means having a high screen magnification and doing lots & lots of scrolling.


When I was doing wedding cars we had a web page but only contact phone numbers.
Once some one had made a booking & paid a deposit did we start to corrospond via email.
We were booked solid nearly two years in advance and used to get a lot of amusement out of jerks telling us we could not exist if we did not do electronic bookings with a real time on line booking application like our competitors.
Tonys usual reply was " While there aer a lot of hire car companies , we do not have any competitors"
The other important thing is we never got caught out doing an improperly planned last minute booking that inevitabily went to shit taking out reputation with it.

I buy parts from Russel Motors and have been doing so for near 30 years.
Usually they are a last resort because I know they will be a tad dearer than other suppliers particularly when it is a NOS purchase.
OTOH I have sent a lot of owners to them who have been impressed no end that they actually knew what they were selling, how to fit it and what other parts are likely to be needed to finish the job or which other bits will have been adversely affected by the worn out / broken part they are replacing

email (option): wariron@tpg,com,au

I'd suggest searching for flyingdogboy on ebay for WD 3HW M20 etc parts.

We've been through all this before, but it's worth pointing out again a few things on the other side of the coin.

Expecting good service isn't purely an American thing. Some of us on this side of the Atlantic want it too. No one is doubting that Les at Russell Motors can be very helpful at times. No one is arguing with the fact that he's got years of history and lots of knowledge and character and quirks and so on. And no one is arguing that in his own way, he's quite likeable. Let's take that as read.

But the fact is, his service is frequently pretty lousy. Good service means CONSISTENTLY good service. Good service means moving with the times and providing a reliable, practical, convenient interface between your business and your customers. Good service means making adjustments. Good service means not abruptly hanging up on people. Good service means indulging your customers, not the other way around.

Fax machines are largely dead. Email has taken over, and anyone (and that means ANYONE) can learn to use email. If that wasn't so, it would not have taken over as the most used communications medium in the world. It just isn't that hard. If you can use a fax machine, you can use email. If you can use a card reader or a cashpoint, you can use email.

If you got the kind of often rude and certainly inconsistent service at your local supermarket or your corner shop as you get at Russells, you'd shop elsewhere. Most M20 owners, etc, would also shop elsewhere if there were alternatives. But there isn't really.

What's happening is that we're confusing quirkiness with sheer obstinacy. We're confusing charming crankiness with inflexibility. We're confusing personality with indifference. Russells are in a very special position, and they can afford to call the shots. And that's what's happening.

I've used Russells many times, and maybe I will again. But only when I absolutely HAVE to. I'd pay more for parts with good service than parts with lousy service.

We can afford to be generous with our opinions, especially with classic bike diehards like Les who, to his great credit, has helped keep our bikes rolling for decades. We're grateful, and long may he continue.

But let's not kid ourselves and excuse the inexcusable.

email (option): dannydefazio@sumpmagazine.com

I refer to my previous post as a good way to access their stock...

To be clear to others. Flyingdogboy is Les's brother Geoff. He is the computer literate half, but he retired from the shop, but continues to sell the stock on line or at jumbles. He has definitely improved his attitude since leaving the shop, but I'm not sure he will conduct the searches for parts at the warehouse that Les still performs?
But I have his email address if anyone wants it. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

email (option): gj.owen@hotmail.co.uk

Ah! Bantam John a whole new meaning to the word or concept of service.

As an overseas punter, I have to say that I find Les helpful and efficient. OK, no e-mail but we have a fax at work and the one time that I forgot to put a return fax number on it, Les made an overseas phone call the same afternoon. He sends parts to UK or foreign addresses without insisting that my address hasn't been verified and credit card authorisations are a simple phone call....no entering of countless pin numbers and authorisation codes.

I certainly do my homework before contacting any parts supplier. Part numbers and proper descriptions are in my opinion an essential when dealing with any sort of machine parts.

If Russell Motors went fully on line, they'd have to budget for a website designer and semi-fulltime IT support plus staff to constantly update stock lists and totals and there is the risk that orders would exceed the ability to deal with them meaning more staff (who are unlikely to know their arses from their elbows).

Do I get more pleasure phoning up Russells or ordering something through Amazon ? Daft question really....

Les doesn't need a full blown website. Most classic dealers don't. He doesn't need IT support staff. He doesn't even need a website designer. And he doesn't need stock lists or anyone to update them.

A SINGLE web page reading RUSSELL MOTORS. BSA AND AJS SPARES.
Or whatever. That would do it. He could put that online (with an email and fax address) and leave it there forever.

Or he could just offer an email address AND fax address with no website.

The cost of a webpage per annum? Nothing. There are plenty of free offers around if you can live with a few pay-per-click ads on the page. Beyond that, £30 - £40 would suffice.

On the plus side, he'd get more business and would have happier customers.

email (option): dannydefazio@sumpmagazine.com

I doubt he need more customers, as for happy well, I have never had any complaints but then again I am out the same mould.

If Les gets pissed off he could easily just shut shop for good then where would you be? cursing Bantam John probably as it seems to be him that's buying up all the excess/ redundant stock everywhere.

If anyone wants a good free website host I can recommend Weebly.

Why move into the current century unless you need to...?

Les seems happy to carry on with the old ways and they appear to serve his needs..if not necessarily the needs of his customers in every respect...

Being in business doesn't automatically tie you to any particular business model..You can run it as you please and if that works for you over 40 years or so and you're still in business I guess that's job done....

Arguably Les's business model has been more successful than Woolworths, the British Car industry, the boat building industry , coal mines, the motorcycle industry etc. etc. etc....

They have all failed while Les has been sending out his faxes.. ....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Nice try, Ian. Of course Les can carry on any way he pleases. And of course people can complain about poor service at times, etc, and take their business elsewhere. That's the flip side.

I'm not sure he's been more successful than 100 years of Woolworths which turned over billions and employed tens of thousands. Ditto for the British Motor Industry. And so on.

It just seems to me that good service is important to many of us. And I know that you feel the same way about looking after your customers.

Maybe we could have a whip round and donate (to Les) a cheap computer with a working email account?

It's an idea.

P.S. It's not that some of us want him to move into the current century. If he'd just move PROPERLY into the LAST century, that would help.

email (option): dannydefazio@sumpmagazine.com

Alright Danny, it's time for me to come clean. I'm just a selfish bastard. I don't want anyone else to be able to contact Russells, buying up all their irreplaceable stock. Things that are worth having shouldn't be easy to get hold of.

The widening of the customer base and consequent demand where stock is finite can only result in increased prices.

Happily I'm now retired apart from manufacturing a few bits to help fund my own projects and to help others with theirs...

I can't say I was a success in 'modern' business terms though and only ever achieved variable levels of service...though I like to think the job itself was always right..

You tend to start a business because you are good at something (or you hope you are)..sometimes people come into a pre existing family business...

However, because you have the skills required to do the job well doesn't mean you have the skills to run a business...far from it..and it's mastering the side of the business you don't know that represents the greater challenge...

For someone engaged in a 'hands on' business such as restoration the 'other side' of it often represents the type of work they don't like doing as well as what they don't know...

I think a tidy workshop and an untidy office illustrates where the divisions were in my head that I ultimately failed to overcome...

I would imagine Les is quite happy the way he is and doesn't even want a computer...

Not everyone even aspires to build the 'perfect' business and those people are happy to settle for less if it works for them...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

My Second job after leaving school was for a old time motorcycle workshop consisting of a derelict house which was the main office which also had the only toilet on the premises which had a complete B33 engine crammed in beside the toilet pan which was a pain in the ar*e and around the main office desk was as pile of sidecar mounts and spare parts strewn everywhere infact you had to tread carefully as not to trip over the parts.Connected to this house was the main workshop which housed bike benches and workshop tools from the 1930s/1940s although everything was in overall good condition it was old.The owner was a Arthur hornigold a man in his early seventies known locally a Ratty.Now I got along very well with Arthur he was a very clever & competent man where british bikes were concerned & I learned a lot from that man.. he also had a old RAF hanger which was full of bikes and spares not many people got in there though.He also like Les didnt suffer fools lightly and if you pissed him off you got a low growl of abuse and he ignored you no matter how hard you tried to communicate hence the nickname Ratty.But if he liked what you were doing he would help you find the parts you needed for your bike and be very helpful with his knowledge.I see a lot of old Ratty in Les you wont change him why would you want even too try accept him for who he is he wont be here forever.. Dave

Ian's post parallels my own experience in the bike trade in many ways.
In 1976 I bought the contents of two or three bike shops that were no longer interested in British Bike spares and opened my own bike shop.

Running a bike shop specialising on british bikes is a good way to lose all your friends, and believe me the bloke with lots of spares has friends he never realised he had.
Every bugger that ever shared a pint or a round of drinks with you wants discount or free bits.

They are all convinced you are making a fortune.
they are all convinced you got it all for bugger all.
half of them want that rare NOS part for the same price less discount for dirt that it was in 1956.

woe betide anyone who takes his bike to a show or rally and wins anything, its only because he's a dealer innit.

When I started it another dealer said to me, "you'll make some money but you'll lose all your friends" I never made any money but I still lost "friends"

I have never known another business where your customers hate you for having the same hobby as they do.
I have tales about customers that you'd never believe. Running a bike shop drove me to the edge of sanity and bankruptcy. To the extent I just shut the shop up one week and sold the lot off to a bloke who did not heed my warnings but who soon found out and himself had got shot of it all a year later.

I wish I still had those spares I bought in 1976 because I'd crucify owners of certain makes for those spares I sold that helped them put their very valuable machines back together so they could make a killing on them.
If anyone doesn't like the way Les runs his business in his old age when he could have retired then get their bits somewhere else.
Because of one thing I am certain, if Russells and a few others had not saved all those spares from going to scrap decades ago, and I have knowledge of much that did go to scrap, none of you out there would be able to even contemplate the bikes you have now.

Why the fek he should change now because a few people cannot adapt to his way of working is beyond me.

Like it or lump it and get your spares from somewhere else.....where?

Since I have had the M20 here in the UK, Russel Motors have been & will always be my first port of call for parts

Les is a great guy & I value his advice & help provided over the years

It can be a bit of a pain not having an e mail address - but I got over that ages ago

It's one of a few old places left where we can go buy our stuff - have a good chat & maybe a cuppa tea

Long may he continue to help us

Job

email (option): Jonnyob1@googlemail.com

I agree Dave, I get on with less very well, I known him for 5 years now and live about 18 miles away from his shop, some times I'll just drive there to get parts ( he gives my twin boys a pound each) or I'll just phone and order any small parts I need, and I normally get em sent the next day, some times he'll tell me what I need, great advise, lovely shop, they also work on today's modern bikes, he has lots and lots of parts, lots of NOS parts and a ware house full of parts, he's cheaper than most other shops and doesn't need to know the insides and out of a ducks arse or a computer code until they determine what part you need. Les is an old school Londoner and is getting on a bit now and he does seem the type of person, if you piss him you'll know about it. He's not gona be here forever, so enjoy it while you can, i know il will.

Barry

email (option): Mrsbfuller@hotmail. Co.uk

After reading this long thread, it sounds like Les is like Hillary Clinton: you either love him, hate him or fear him, nothing in between.

email (option): jonny.rudge@verizon.net

I enjoy seeing les, and he's very good and is a huge fund of info, when he's gone you will all miss his dry sense of humour and the parts cos they will disappear to be seen on Epay at twice the price andrew

email (option): warbikes@gmale.cum think about this

I have to add that I have always valued my conversations with Les and he has always been very helpful to me and an invaluable source of information and advice as well as parts. I have always been courteous to him as I was brought up to be and he has been the same with me. I too have seen many characters in the motor industry through the 60's and 70's and have to say that life was made more interesting because of them. Nowadays with all the legislation we are all hemmed in with there does not appear to be any room for anybody who dares to be different! I will definately mourn Les when he succumbs to his inevitable destiny.
Just value his presence and don't be in a great hurry.
Paul

email (option): paul@holmesfamily.ws

Russells is usually my last resort as I have not got a clue what faxing is or how to do it. But a few times I have made the 80 mile ride down to buy stuff over the counter.
I find Les a taciturn man who does things his own way and at his own speed, much like some of the older guys I worked with when I was younger. Like most of us as we get older he has seen it all and done it all and is not going to make any effort to keep up with modern styles---- it's his way or the highway
It is an experience to buy from him and he usually has all that I want and offers advice as well.
Which does not help you in Arizona Mike, but I hope you understand and get sorted out with what you need.

it's great to see such a long conversation about Russell's - I wonder if Les will ever read it!! Somehow I don't think so. As I've said before, living nearby I often see les and the 'boys' as the twins are called and in my opinion they are really great, really helpful and really reasonable. Lets hope they are around a very long time yet - it's a great shop and I've always had my MOTs done there, until I haven't needed to anymore.

all best everyone, peter

I have never known Les to be taciturn, in fact the last time I spoke to him over the phone we had quite a laugh together in a lengthy natter.
Then again we both have the same graveyard sense of humour re dealing with the motorcycling public, and I have been buying stuff from Russells/Myers motors sinceI was 17 some 50 yrs ago, both in the trade and out.

I think, no disrespect to our ex-colonial mates, that to expect someone to change the habits of a lifetime just to conform to their modern whizz kid ideas of service is a bit off frankly.

I have been folloing this thread with a great deal of mirth .
So it seems that an owner of a totally obsolete motorcycle is offended by the fact that a major retailer of parts for that old, obsolete, out of date period technology does not want to convert the businness into ultra modern one with all the electronic bells & whistles that modern motorcycles have.
So if you have to deal o the web.
BUY A MODERN MOTORCYCLE and leave pariod historic vehicles to those who not only appreciate the vehicles but the mannar in which motorcycle shops of the same period were run.

Oh and I seriously doubt that Les is worried about becomming the next multibillionere evilbay retailer.
He dose what he likes in a mannar that he enjoys and has managed to do it without your professional assistance for the past 50 years

email (option): wariron@tpg,com,au

Russell Motors are found by a google search and you can print out their parts/price lists which are about the same price as when first printed in October 2006. I have always had great service from Les as I just fax him my order then ring next day with my visa details. On my one and only trip to UK last year and I went to his shop, made me feel welcome and supplied the matchless parts that i wanted new old stock at a very cheap price. Very cheap when you struggle to get them at all in Australia. He does not need an email address at his age and I dont give mine out much as my hobby is selling Amal carb parts and get emails from guys to say their bike is running rough its a 1948 model with a Concentric on it what should there needle jet, slide cutaway, main jet size be. I usually try and help them but after twenty emails back and forth wasting my time they give up. I later find out that they had a burnt out exhaust valve or broken valve spring. I know of several great bike mechanics who have sold up because guys buy a Bonneville that has been imported from USA by a large company and sold off as just needing a tune up. When the mechanic checks it he finds the exhaust valve is burnt out, the rings are worn out, the bearings are worn out when he tells the customer that he needs a full engine rebuild they accuse him of robbery as the rebuild will cost more than they paid for the bike. I say Les is doing a great job and I wish we had someone in Australia with his stock at his prices.

With everybody's help, I was able to make contact with Les at Russell Motors and have since placed and received several orders. They are straight up honest folks and one of the few people out there that original issue parts. Thanks. All. Mike Margolis

email (option): mikemargolis@cox.net

['I know of several great bike mechanics who have sold up because guys buy a Bonneville that has been imported from USA by a large company and sold off as just needing a tune up. When the mechanic checks it he finds the exhaust valve is burnt out, the rings are worn out, the bearings are worn out when he tells the customer that he needs a full engine rebuild they accuse him of robbery as the rebuild will cost more than they paid for the bike']


I think few people realise the real cost of an engine rebuild carried out to a good standard by a proper engineer...and that is just the components..

It's best not to even consider tuned, non standard engines at all...

Many also don't realise you have to earn a living wage equivalent to theirs AND pay to run a workshop, cover the expenses of consumable items, fuel and time to get work done by external companies such as platers etc. and the postage costs of buying in parts if needed....

The main reason I gave up rebuilding engines and gearboxes was that what was brought to me was getting worse and worse in overall condition and often it wasn't even complete..far from it in fact...

That had to be turned back into an 'as new' engine and it was gradually becoming impossible to explain to most customers that the bill they were getting was actually entirely reasonable...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

"...The main reason I gave up rebuilding engines and gearboxes was that what was brought to me was getting worse and worse in overall condition and often it wasn't even complete..far from it in fact...

That had to be turned back into an 'as new' engine and it was gradually becoming impossible to explain to most customers that the bill they were getting was actually entirely reasonable...Ian"



BUT MY MATE SAYS IT JUST NEEDS A SERVICE............

There have been a number of posts on this thread suggesting that Les doesn't need to go ultra high tech, etc, with all bells and whistles, etc. I don't think that anyone is suggesting that he should.

The point is, although email is intrinsically high tech, at the point of use, it's as simple as a fax. It's certainly no more complicated than the card reader gadget Les has, or a cashpoint machine, or a TV remote control, or any number of other tech devices that have been introduced in recent years.

By all means Les can do what he wants. But it's not unreasonable for people to wish for a few small trading concessions to modernity, especially as it's now a global market. This isn't about ex-colonials being intolerant, or whatever. I know of a number of people right here in the UK who gave up years ago with Russells. I haven't given up, but at times I could be happier. And yes, I've shared jokes and suchlike with Les and he's helped me out. No argument. But the service is frequently inconsistent, and that's what spoils it for many. Good relationships involve give and take. But at Russells, as has been pointed out, it's always his way or the highway.

What many people are saying is that they want the best that Russells has to offer, but without the worst. It's not a demand. Just a wish.

Note that this thread is being played out not on a fax machine but on what is effectively email, and much of it by guys either as old as Les, or very nearly.

It's just isn't that hard to accomodate people with an email interface - assuming, that is, you can be bothered.

Here's the bottom line: Would we rather Les had email as WELL as a fax?

Game over.

email (option): dannydefazio@sumpmagazine.com

What's going to come first ? Russell Motors on line or a proper paper copy of 'Sump' Magazine ?

email (option): 79x100(at)gmail.com

I like 'Sump' just the way it is and it's the 'other site' I consider worth visiting most days...

I'm sure Les will carry on as is...I can live with that, but as Danny says e mail would be easier...

Mind you...I'm the bloke that refuses to use text because I think it's ruining the English language..doesn't have a television, thinks social media is largely a waste of time, has a mobile that only makes phone calls and doesn't think the whole tech thing is 'Like..Awesome'.. ...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Hi Rik, I get asked often about a paper copy of Sump (I assume your question is serious - but I don't mind if you're being ironic and/or cheeky). All the bike magazines are way down in sales. Looks like the game's up for some of them.

MCN used be 200,000 per week. It's down to around 100,000 copies.
Performance Bikes used to be around 90,000 per month. I think it's down to around 20,000.
Ditto for Bike Magazine.
BSA is down from around 45,000 - maybe 20,000 or thereabouts.
Morton titles aren't ABC'd, so we can only guess.
Classic Bike is a little down (I think), but holding up.
Sites such as this are putting magazines out of busines, and long may this site continue.

Sump wouldn't work in print for various reasons. Maybe that will change. But not soon, I suspect. With print, it's not so much the production as the distribution. The web reaches people faster and easier (note to Les there).

email (option): dannydefazio@sumpmagazine.com

Danny, a bit of all of that really.

I was once a committed magazine buyer but lost interest first in the 'modern' magazines (still have all my 1970s issues of 'Bike')...then gradually the Classic mags as well.

CB decided that Japanese Classics were better as they are faster and more reliable (Had that argument thirty years ago and chose the slow unreliable stuff). Classic Motor Cycle gradually came into the hands of whipersnappers. I can't blame them for not having been there in the day alongside Bob Currie, but I can blame them for not getting off their arses and doing some proper research. The material is out there.

My only current subscription is to Real Classic. Not for the technical information but because it's like a conversation with fellow enthusiasts (much as this forum. I like magazines, I look forward to RC, to the NOC magazine and 'Windscreen' from the MVT.

I'm blowed if I'm going to shell out on a tablet or something and a hugely expensive mobile subscription in order to read a motorcycle magazine whilst I'm waiting for daughters to dance / skate / shop or whatever.

email (option): 79x100(at)gmail.com

Hi Rik. I'm with you on practically all of that. But I wonder if it's partly simply that we're getting older and are harder to impress. Been there, done it, rode that, read that, etc.

But you don't need a high tech tablet to read an online magazine of any kind. You just need a low-tech tablet to swallow while you're reading most of them (but not when reading through Sump, I hope).

email (option): dannydefazio@sumpmagazine.com

Well, despite my running my own website,using this spawn of Satan device to entertain myself, using evilbay and the rest to get all sorts of kit I now need to ask WTF is Sump? I gather some kind of online magazine?

Real Classic started that way and look at it now or what its become, a club for a favoured few.

I haven't bought or looked at any bike magazine on or off line for over 12 years, not interested in any way in modern stuff.

I find reading long runs of text on screen quite hard work.
I also find it much longer to type, say this post, than to write it with pen and paper.

I do a fair bit of writing for various things, even when putting a new page on my website I write out what I want to say with paper and pencil, it allows me to get my thoughts down as quick as I think them.

when I ry to type on screen quic it a lod of arbafeg no blody spel ccek her efer

and had to read back 3 times thruogh this to check imade sends

Not enough technical depth in the classic mags for me these days..It's mainly road tests and 'impressions'...

Some of the technical articles are unfortunately written by people who don't know the subject and just regurgitate information they have acquired from others...

That's a risky strategy as a) you rely on the fact the people you are talking to know the subject in detail and b) that you have sufficient skill to present that information in a credible way to an audience that no doubt contains some who are familiar with the subject...

A recent article in Classic bike by the 'technical wizard' Rick Partington what's his name, on measuring equipment was cringe inducing...

He obviously doesn't have an Engineers grasp of that subject...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Hi Ken, Sump is where all the oily dregs go to get their big ends lubed. It probably wouldn't suit you.

email (option): dannydefazio@sumpmagazine.com

I just did a search on Sump magazine.......
Not for me I'm afraid, when I see "old skool" I invariably skip that text,the white on black pages are too harsh for my old eye sand the wrong choice of font.
In my opinion its all a bit fussy and crowded.

I used to write for some of what were the premier rank of the mags back in the 1980s, Bob Currie days pre Mortons evil empire and I concur with what Ian says re content and the crap for what passes as informed advice.

I was often embarrassed with sharing pages with some of the ignorance that got printed, people who thought a dynamo was an alternator, that a magneto was a generator, who think AJS is the parent company of Matchless and so on.

Later on the content became mostly advertorial especially under Mortons.

I agree with Danny on some of what he says in Sump re ebay, but he's got no chance of reforming that USA/Luxembourg based megalith.
I have no complaints re ebay after 10 years of it, bought and sold and done well from it.


As for the magazines reduced sales possibly its because this is mostly an old mans hobby and we've seen it all before, you can only warm up a stew so many times before it gets unpalatable.

Plus they are far too expensive.Rehashed stew or a bottle of wine? no contest



" Sump is where all the oily dregs go to get their big ends lubed. It probably wouldn't suit you"

No I only go where the cranks go.....

Take a look at this listing on eBay for a matching-numbers WM20. The engine number looks original, not so sure about the frame number. What do you guys think?

Jeff

email (option): jjbandoo@aol.com

The link did not print: http://www.ebay.com/itm/BSA-WM20-M20-WM-20-1944-MATCHING-MOTOR-AND-FRAME-T-TLE-MAG-GEN-/251702283945?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a9aa00ea9

email (option): jjbandoo@aol.com

If anything, I'd say the other way round? Where is the WM20 prefix on the engine?

Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

I think the engine stampings are original..The font and spacing look good...and I've come across engines before without prefixes...

Replacement cases came from the factory with no numbers and the individual workshop (or fitter) may not have adhered to normal practice...

If anything has had a restamp I would agree the frame looks to be more likely... The letter spacing is a bit more erratic than normal..Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Hijacked thread! Time to start a new one about numbers matching.

cheers

I need to correct that, I've just been informed by mutual acquaintance that the TV in your house is not owned by you, it's owned by your partner!

['Forums, you can be who and what you want!!!!']....

I'm afraid you've been misinformed Mike...Niether I nor my partner have a television, want a television or have had a television for at least 10 years...

However, I have friends who do own televisions and therein lies the clue.... ...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

I understand, when they visit they bring their TV with them, which explains why it can be seen through the front window curtains when it's on! You're lucky they call around when there is something on that you want to see!
How do you spell 'Pinnochio'?

As I said...I don't have a television..I'll repeat that...I don't have a television....

I have been known to visit my friends though and most have them do have televisions...So where did I see the programme?...Give it your best shot....

How do you spell Dumbo?....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

email (option): wariron@tpg,com,au

Ian Wright

['Forums, you can be who and what you want!!!!']....

I'm afraid you've been misinformed Mike...Niether I nor my partner have a television, want a television or have had a television for at least 10 years...

However, I have friends who do own televisions and therein lies the clue.... ...Ian

email (option): wariron@tpg,com,au

Let's get back to motorcycles, guys.
(the other Mike)

Just bought some bits from Les and he managed to "up-sell" me some M20 tools. Placed the order Thursday over the phone, got the bits Friday next day.

I think he has been watching "Open all Hours" re the up-selling.....Arkwright would have been proud.

email (option): sacombsashtrees@hotmail.com