I'm thinking about installing ape hanger handlebars (with tassles) and chroming everything else. Maybe rake the front end, paint it in a Captain America style and putting a really, really fat rear tire on it. Does anyone have a 14" front wheel rim to fit this model?

In USA, crap like this is normally blamed on "Bubba". He lives somewhere in the deep south, has a nice large workshop where he butchers artefacts by chroming them or whatever else ruins their intrinsic value. Bubba sharpens historic bayonets with an angle grinder (before he chromes them) and shortens historic rifles to make them "more cool".

OR - someone could actually help me and tell me something about my girl's history - where she's been, what happened to he before all this awful cosmetic alteration etc was imposed on such an innocent girl...

Yes - I know I have some work ahead of me, but in the end all will be good - truste me.

email (option): cas.vanderwoude@gmail.com

Hi Cas,
I must admit, I've often wondered what the M20 girder forks would look like chromed. Now I know!
If you send Henk a PM I'm sure he will help you out. He's a mine of useful historical information on these wonderful bikes. If your bike has seen active military service, he will know.

Brooky.

email (option): chasgbrook@hotmail.com

email (option): viaconsu [at] planet\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

Cas. WM20 34382 was from a large contract (C7287) of 17000 bikes in 1940. You already have the early rear valanced mudguard that it would probably have had.
I calculate your census number to be C4350974. However I doubt that you will ever know where or who it served with. Ron

PS Noam are you in the wrong thread?

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Hi Cas,

I have just send you some information about your BSA. Your BSA left the factory in 1941 and according to the photos I have with tank numbers close to your BSA it didn\'t had the valanced mudguard any more.

Henk

email (option): ahum@quicknet.nl

Hi Henk,

My 41' it a bit younger than the one Cas has,
And my frame No. is WM20 39557 (July 41'?)
I have valanced rear mudguard on mine.
Is that correct?

Can you send me a picture of something close, if you have?

Thanks,
Noam.

email (option): noam10@gmail.com

Hi Noam,

According to my calculations your tank number would have been C4356149.

It seems your BSA shouldn't have a valanced mudguard but still have the ridge on the middle of the mudguard. These mudguards are just as hard to find as the one you have now.

I have emailed you some war time photos.

Henk

email (option): ahum@quicknet.nl

hi Hans,
I was born in Holland and emigrated to Australia when I was very young (1969). Have ridden motorcycles since my 16th birthday and currently have about 30 or so - mostly non-running "future projects".

Henk,
Thank you so much for the wonderful information you emailed me! I have yet to pick up my M20 from previous owner. Its on a different island and I will need to ship it here before I can start to "un-restore" it.

there is always room at my home for guests so if anyone is contemplating a vacation here, there's free accommodation for you.

Cas

email (option): cas.vanderwoude@gmail.com

I cannot resist mis-quoting "Pirates of the Caribbean" that mudguard specs (and specs of anything else produced on a WW2 production line") were more of a guideline than a code! Rivet counting is the way to madness and, IMHO, likely to produce a machine that is as untypical of that actually used and abused in WW2 as a chromed M20. Sorry, I throw in these diatribes from time to time when I see another newcomer to the green affliction being sucked into the pursuit of mythical perfection! If it looks like a pile of green poo on girder forks leaking its bodily fluids copiously and sounding like Gene Krupa, then it's a pukka M20.

My impression is that WD contracts were so strictly controlled in terms of costings and specifications that nothing was changed unless agreed by both parties. Changes did occur mid-contract but in the case of the rear mudguards, all the photographic evidence that I've seen (and presumably Henk agrees) is that Contract C6654 (Catalogue Ref. 23) had valanced rear guards but none of the subsequent large contract C7287 (Cat ref.24) had them.

It was a transitional contract as the large fuel tanks were still being fitted.

In fact, it is noticeable when studying photographs of the bikes when they first went into service just how consistent the specifications were. The impression that they were all bitsas in service is really more a reflection of late- and post-war use.

If the bikes are to be kept in this form and if there is any pretence of historical accuracy then there really ought to be more 'rebuild' census numbers around.

Yes, Rik, that is the mantra. Personally, I doubt very much that the exigencies of war allowed for strict adherence to minor design changes, rather, the production line worked with what they had to hand. That was most certainly true post-war, but it would be really interesting to have more information from people who produced the machines rather than Ministry statistics. Having had my Bedford MW parked up at War and Peace over the past 4 days, I had visits from numerous MW owners and we agreed that not one body had been built the same exact way, even from the same years, because they were essentially hand- built by different craftsmen. It appears that for every \\\\\\\"fact\\\\\\\" about WW2 hardware, there is contradictory evidence. But all I take from this is that it is unwise to get overly precious about rivets. Not that it does not matter at all, just that it may be a sterile furrow to plough. IMHO with Oak Cluster. Ferg

Great photos Henk.

Thanks !

Noam.

email (option): noam10@gmail.com

BSA never worried about fitting only the correct parts during post war production so why would things have been different during the war.
What was more important, getting the bikes on the boat or missing the boat till the corret parts could be fitted.

email (option): wariron@tpg,com,au

"Never" worried ? That's a rather sweeping statement, even when applied to the old "Bits Stuck Anywhere's"

Wartime production does seem to have been more structured but of course they were only building one model for one contracted customer, not dependent on model years and seasonal demand. Parts could be ordered in line with contracts.

Costings and supplies of raw materials were so tight that there is no way BSA would have gone back to producing valanced guards once the decision had been made to produce a cheaper lighter version.

Of course, there were regular changes and updates but there seems to have been very much a policy of using up parts first.

There is no doubt that interchangeable parts were mixed and matched in service but the idea that production workers at maximum production didn't know which mudguard they would pull from the bin next and that they would have to rummage for different fasteners to fit them really doesn't square with the efforts made by the factories and the Ministry of Supply to streamline production.

I don't know how many M20 photographs I have sorted by census number (not as many as Henk, and less than I have Norton) but it's quite easy to see from these with aspects as visible as the rear guard or the fuel tank that there were clear cut-offs in terms of production changes.

None of which interferes with an owners right to fit whatever parts he chooses to his machine and I would defend his right to do that but if someone asks advice about what was fitted originally, then I believe that an answer has to be based upon the information available rather than a supposition influenced by post-war rebuilds that implies any BSA part manufactured between 1935 and 1955 is absoulutely correct for a WM20 as they fitted whatever they could find.

I don't ever think I will get this pedantic about any motorcycle. I'm just glad it has what mostly looks like the correct parts (albeit Bubba-ized in places). I'm no stickler for absolute correctness. Oh, and for your visual enjoyment, an image before the "restoration" by previous owner...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4ikdvrkmz18ovic/IMG_0087.JPG

That BSA has a very strange gearbox fitted I see now.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4ikdvrkmz18ovic/IMG_0087.JPG

email (option): ahum@quicknet.nl

Hi Cas...Welcome to the forum...Once restored/refurbished you will find your M20 will give long and reliable service...(with or without the chrome.. )

I have to say I'm in total agreement with Rik over the question of 'fixed specification'...

M20s were completed at the rate of one every ten minutes at peak production with more than one assembly line involved in the work...

This type of production is simply not possible unless the system that supplies parts to the assembly lines produces the right parts in the right quantities and at the right times...

I worked in production engineering at a factory that manufactured automatic lathes and milling machines and there is no way this could have been done in some sort of 'ad hoc' fashion....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Hi Cas and all,

I found a photo of
"1940 BSA WM20 500cc Military Originally delivered to Chilwell - contract C7287 £Sold."

Same contract as mine.

http://www.roncobb.com/40BSAWM20.html

I don't know how accurate it is..

Noam.

email (option): noam10@gmail.com

And here is a ridged fender.

eBay eBay item number:291197186478

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BSA-B31-B33-REAR-MUDGUARD-1952-RIGID-GENUINE-NOS-BSA-PART-M21-M33-/291197186478?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item43ccb471ae&vxp=mtr

A bit dear, ha?...

Noam.

email (option): noam10@gmail.com