First ML contract was for around 3,500 bikes..........frame numbers went almost in the same sequence......eg "ML2" upward........

Second contract started at numbers "5000" something (without looking up.....)

Years ago now I had a James ML, frame "ML4401"....log book stated "ex-WD - Rebuilt" and first (civvy) registered in 1953.........bike bore the contract plate on the rear mudguard from the first contract...........

So, what does this suggest ? I need feedback here........!!

Several years later I came across a new-old-stock ML stamped frame also in the "4000" (missing numbers), painted khaki-brown.........

Any thoughts on the first contract being for maybe 3,500-odd bikes, PLUS, say, 1,500 odd as "spares".....?? (eg - frames, forks, engines, etc ??????) - this was commonplace with other makes/contracts, etc..........

"Official" James records state that they built "5,940" lightweight motorcycles for "Airborne Troops" (Lol !) PLUS "400 Lightweight motorcycles for Naval Ratings" (that were presumably also the ML...??)...........

Thoughts, anyone...????

Steve, I've had the advantage of being at the NA (PRO) more recently than you (and armed with that wonder of modern research tools, the digital camera).

I can't recall any allowance of more than 10% for spare engines in general on WD motorcycles...but maybe they wanted more for 2-strokes ? There might be some clues still there, or even separate engine contracts.

Did James make anything for other essential/ government users during the war years ?

I've seen no reference to James factory records. Did AMC destroy everything relating to the period prior to the takeover ?

Steve Wilson in his 'British Motorcycles' series refers to the loss of factory records in the Birmingham blitz of 1940 which seems to imply that later records might still survive ? The factory itself was damaged but not destroyed.

email (option): 79x100@gmail.com

Rik, there is a publication issued by James post-war entitled "Retrospect and Prospect" that details the company history and wartime production........seems to have been largely for the Ministry of Aircraft Production (Lysanders, Spitfires, Stirlings, Barracudas, etc) plus ordnance (shells, etc), parts for RN ships, Bofors guns, etc........

The ML's were built well after the Greet factory was bombed so records may well exist elsewhere...........

I last went to the NA only last year but was not researching motorcycle archives on that occasion......! :o)

email (option): 79x100@gmail.com

I would need weeks at the NA Rik.......:o)

Just a suggestion, but I'm putting together a list of surviving WD ML's.......

Can anybody with an ML post details here of their Frame / Engine and "C" number ??? No pressure, and I do respect privacy............

List is currently up to nearly 25 !!! Thanks in advance.........

Steve mine is Frame No. 7619 with Census No C5855219 Engine supplied by yours truly is AAA24255A. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Ron, many thanks mate :o) (and you need a KG painted engine, exhaust system (save the down-pipes), carb and a blackout mask on that lovely James !! Lol)

OK Steve. Next time it comes off it's shelf Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Hi Steve,

Here is my poor man's copy of the James ML. A 1946 frame in WWII disguise. Engine number is for you to tell me what year it may be

I should mention it is a work in progress

email (option): unpob@yahoo.com

46 production Henri may well embrace cancelled ex-WD stock..........at least 1,500 bikes from the last contract from frames ML 8501 to 10,000..........and thereafter the factory were likely still using up ex-WD parts...........folding footrests and the cylindrical toolbox still listed in the 1946 civvy parts book...............engine markings (to me) look WD, but late, so again, maybe ex-WD production....?

Sadly, no record of WD Villiers 9D engine numbers for ML allocation........

Thanks Steve

email (option): unpob@yahoo.com

Here's mine:
1944
Frame number ML7385
Engine number AAA18984A
Unsure of the original Serial number: This one was made up I think.
Nearing the time for stripping and repainting.
This one has had a replacement rear mudguard which has a tag for the 1943 batch but the frame number places it in the 1944 batch.
Interestingly enough this bike came from India and rather than remove the old tyres when replacing them, the new ones had simply been put on over the old WD ones!

email (option): m.j.moore2006@googlemail.com

Thanks Matt.......your ML looks nicely complete....!

It was part of the 4th and last wartime ML contract, 294/23/S.7113, Catalogue Ref.4, Frames ML 7001 to ML 8500, "C" numbers C5854601 to C5856100........this contract was originally for 3,000 ML's but was reduced to 1,500 with the end of the war looming..........

Original "C" number allocated to yours was C5854985.........should be the usual contract plate on the rear mudguard just below the tail-light...........

My 16H came from New Delhi, India.........some of the "mods" done to her to keep her running were "interesting" to say the least !!

Hi guys,
My James ML has an engine number AAA 22005A
with a frame number 1747 ( could be made up).
The contract number plate is long gone.
Hope that helps Steve.
Regards,
Hank

Thanks Hank !!

Hi All!

I am about to purchase a James ML motorbike but I cannot locate the frame number.The frame number that I was sent reads - ML 28181. How is that possible? Definitely appears post war to me.

Where are the most common places to look for when searching for serial numbers? I did notice a brass tag on top of the engine that describes the type of oil that is to be used in the 2 stroke engine but nothing specific as to identify if the bike was WWII or not.Was this a common practice for the bike used in WWII?

Thank you very much!

email (option): lentzbrandon@hotmail.com