Due to the fact that i need a 1" handlebar and all the 1" levers for my 3HW
i have a few questions.
I know that all pre war Triumphs from 2H to Tiger 100 used the
1" handlebar H225.
My 3HW is from contract S 2114 in 1943 and used the 1" handlebar 98/046.
The 98/046 was also used on the 3SW.
Then from mid 1944-45 or maybe a bit earlier they used the 7/8" BSA handlebar.

Can someone tell me in which way the three handlebars differ in the way
they are bent. On photographs it is not always clear to see if there is a
height difference etc.
Also i would be interestet if they changed the handlebar
clamps when the 7/8" bar was introduced or did they use a sleeve ?

regards Albert

Albert I can't tell you if the bend is exactly the same at this time without doing some checking (maybe tomorrow). But My 3HW is from one of the last contracts with 7/8 bars. The clamps are not sleeved! I also have a 3SW! Brian Tillin had some pre war Triumph bars made and I could check if he has any left. Of course these are chrome with the reduced end for the 15/16" civy twist grip.
Not sure where you get the BSA thing from though. They are nothing like M20 bars. Ron.

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: Triumph 3HW handlebars

Ron, Chris Orchard and Steve Madden wrote in their book
that in 1944 a new 7/8" handlebar design was introduced and
it was listed as a standard BSA part in the "rivals" manufacturers part lists.
And therefore i thought the 7/8" is a standard WM20 handlebar.

On ebay there is also a 7/8" 3HW indian replica handlebar which
is named 3HW WM20 handlebar.
I don´t know whats true
Albert

Albert, to my eye the 3HW and 3SW bend looks about the same. The M20 bar is much higher. You have the advantage on me with that comment in O&M as I can't find it in my 'new edition' My first edition is on permanent loan to Brian Tillin. Personally I would take any notice of statements from the eastern suppliers. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Ron thank you for your effort.
The chapter in the revised edition from O&M is named
Standardisation in the Second World War. page 17.

As i said there is written that all very late contracts from
Triumph (contract S5340 onward) BSA and Ariel used this 7/8" handlebar parts.
These were listed as BSA standard parts in SOME of their rival manufacturers
parts lists. I have only the 3HW replacement parts book for contract S 2114.
It would be interesting which part numbers are written in the handlebar
section in the 3HW replacement parts book for contract S 5340.
Do you know if Triumph made a parts book for later contracts than S 2114 ?

Interestingly there is a picture on page 158 in O&M which shows
a REME workshop in the Middle East. On this picture there are
two or more 3HW´s with Vokes airfilters (late contract) photographed
from behind an this handlebars look quite high. I have also found two
pictures from an Indian 3HW (below) and have compared this two pictures with
the one from the REME workshop with a CAD Program where i scaled the pictures and found that the shape and height difference is exactly the same. The height difference is around 60mm.

The 7/8 inch 3HW handlebar on ebay looks also exactly the same
Albert

Albert I had totally missed that page, and indeed the part number in my S 5340 parts list is 91/111. I can't say I've ever noticed a 3HW with those high bars and I've also never noticed an Ariel W/NG without their strange 1" tapering to 7/8" bars. Maybe the order to fit standard bars was taken up as stocks of previous types were used up, and who knows when that happened? But to fit WM20 bars would seem correct for at least the last models.
My own 3HW is from that contract S 5340 where I noted that the air/mag levers have changed from the single screw pivot type fixing to the normal 2 screw fixing. However I used the bars that came with the bike which seemed to look like part of the original deal.....But who knows for sure?
You are also correct about the REME picture. They do look like M20 bars..I'll get my coat!!

Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Lord knows why people mount their handlebars with the ends up on an angle like that? It's a most unnatural position for your wrists! It's a little niggle that has always puzzled me?

Ron, thank you for looking in the parts list for contract S 5340.
Ok, then we know the 7/8" bar 91/111 is indeed higher than the 1" 3HW, 3SW Triumph bar 98/046.



In this photograph it is clearly to see that if the handlebar is turned in a way the crips are horizontal the bar is bent up and minimal forward and then back.
I again scaled and measured the image and it is the normal 1" handlebar
# 98/046. The height difference between clamps and grips is exactly 2".

Here I found a link for the pre war handlebar H225 which was used for all pre war models and this bar is strongly bent forward and is completely different.

Link: http://www.britcycle.com/products/handlebars/97_0225.htm

I think we have it
Albert

Hi Gents

A very interesting post.

Currently I am restoring a 1940 Triumph 3SW but the handlebars are completely incorrect. Was a source ever found for the 98/046 pattern or similar?

Thank you in advance.

email (option): findingsteveo@hotmail.com

Brian Tillin had a batch of handlebars made (copied from an original 38 or 39) Of course they were chromed and had the silly 15/16" end for the Truiumph twist grip. Both of which can be overcome. His mob is 07786861697. Nice guy, mention my name if you phone him. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Thanks Ron!

email (option): findingsteveo@hotmail.com

I've realised since I restored my 3SW that the handlebar should be dull chrome plate and not painted. So a bright chrome bar can be light grit blasted to a matt finish. I need to take mine off for plating. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Regarding 7/8 and 1" handlebars, does this mean that there were also two types of handlebar clamps?

For my 3sw project I have a 1" handlebar and controls, but original handlebar clamps seem to be very rare, so I have to think about buying the aftermarket parts from India, at least until I find an orignal set.

But the Indian made copies are 7/8 and I have my doubts that a 1" handlebar will fit into their smaller openings.

email (option): TheScrapyard@gmx.net

Indeed Oliver, the handlebar clamps are different and you can't fit a 1" bar into 7/8" clamps. I doubt there is enough metal to machine out the extra 1/16", especially considering the suspected weak nature of the Indian made items. Probably a case of searching jumbles and Ebay. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Ok, there is a fire damaged 3hw girder fork on the market, but also with 7/8 clamps. Might be even safer to use the clamps from India.

So I guess I have to install a 7/8 handlebar and new 7/8 twist grip to get on with this project, the other parts might fit a thinner tube.

Thanks

Oliver

email (option): TheScrapyard@gmx.net

In that case Oliver, you could go with the standardized M20 bars as fitted to the later 3HW's as noted in Alberts post with pictures above. I Still have a few new reproduction WM20 bars if you need one. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

I guess I should wait until my Indian shopping trip is successful.

Somebody is offering a 3hw handlebar, 7/8, with 1" sleeve on the left side and "original". Don´t know what to think about it, but I guess this means I could use my 1" speedo grip.

email (option): TheScrapyard@gmx.net

What is a 1" speedo grip? Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

"Twist grip for trottle". At least the one I have would not fit a 7/8 tube.

email (option): TheScrapyard@gmx.net

OMG! Now you've put that image back in my mind:scream: Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Can you please give me brian tillian e mail id pls

I have two email address's and a mob number for Brian Tillin. Please email me directly for the information. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com