Hi all ,good to see some info about early bikes, I am trying to find out some info on a BSA B20 or B 21., the frame is KB 21, But the engine is JB20 is this right? it has foot change and the wrong front mudguard,and wrong levers Although not WD according to O and M s book, , it has a wartime colour green frame and wheels under black paint, So it could have been impressed, This overhead engine , what's its performance like? compared to say the W C10 side valve that according to Ron wouldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding, , any way your thoughts,h

email (option): warbikes@gmail.com

Keith does have a point. It may seem overpriced however, in reference to rapidly and nonsensically escalating prices of other specimens nowadays, it is fair. It is unfortunate that so few examples are affordable to the masses. Sure they are wonderful bikes but exorbitant prices are driving away those of us who don't wish to remortgage our homes for a 76 year old single stroke machine...

A Y13 would however bring me to do so
Window shopping indeed :)

It goes to show that a bikes worth lies in the value of desirability. A visceral yearning to cruise on such a visually tantalizing machine knows no price. Thank you all for your wonderful input!

Who says it'll sell & if so at what price? Let's have bets

It is a very attractive and tidy bike, ever if not totally "correct".

The rear stand looks like it is way over center, and the plastic battery connectors caught my eye; there will be opportunities for further refinements by a new owner...

Most sellers are convinced they are asking too little and that someone is going to snap up their little treasure and then flip it to someone else for much more.

The owner is now testing the market price; I would recommend you watch the listing and if does not meet the reserve, that you contact the seller and begin negotiations. A personal relationship is important in these kinds of transactions...you are not just buying a commodity, you are purchasing part of a person's life.

email (option): teladelujo@ msn.com

Had a look at the pictures on ebay. Close up it dosn't look so good, dodgy fasteners and a rusty girder spring for a start. Also the dealer who's site its on says it will need recommissioning before use! A 15yr old restoration. Don't get me wrong it looks a nice bike I'm just saying its not worth 8 grand.

Its worth what it reaches at auction isn't it.
These bikes prices haven't levelled out, they are still increasing.
I didn't think a 1937 G14 was worth £28,000 until one sold for that last month. an M22 OHV 500 is a good girder bike that will keep up with traffic nicely.

What it's worth depends to a degree on how much you want it..or at least that particular thing..
If you're just talking about the riding experience a girder fork M20 with a B33 engine fitted would give you virtually the same experience for less money. (and would be easier to get spares for)..Ian..

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

strange they will sell a BSA M22 for a M23 it is the same as most BSA spares are Gold star spares.Onley to raise the price . Thats even with this bike if you look good there are more things incorect like the speedometer bracket.And more if you buy this bike look always with an expert an do not buy it in an impuls. Like Ian says an M33 gider is much cheaper and ride almost the same. If you make the bike correct as original it wil cost a lot of money.Greating Theo

email (option): oldbikes@kpnmail.nl

Video of the same bike hangs on youtube already more than 3 years. He really wants to believe he owns the "empire star"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECEsC-Mq7ig

email (option): kalle.tikas@gmail.com

Seems like James was just about to take the bait
Based on all your constructive comments, I shall definitely pass and expect an 'authentic' classic to make its appearance. Patience is a virtue.

3 years on youtube trying to spin it as an Empire Star may have gained him exposure but it in no way reassures a potential buyer.

Good luck to whoever may win it over a $12,500 reserve price

Yes the you tube video doesn't help but the same Guy does a narrative on an M24 Gold Star on there & he's labeled it as a 38 & talks about it being a 38, but the bike has 39 type fuel tank, badges, oil tank, exhaust downpipe, head, barrel, tappet cover ... crankcases, cam design etc etc .. its very insulting to these machines to not do a few simple Google searches before doing a video "history lesson" on them.

In fact, if you had to find a BSA model that had the same model code & model name but had the most visual & mechanical differences from one year to the next it would probably be the 38 & 39 M24.

So we have established the Guy is a fool & a dreamer but it doesn't mean the bike isn't potentially an extremely nice M22 & any potential purchaser should be disregarding the "Empire star" element as its very easily taken off.
my comment about it being a model with good performance for modern traffic situations was in the context of owning a bike that looks fairly correct original spec & easily put right. with a future value that reflects all those correct parts.
anyone who has put together a chrome panel tank BSA in recent years will know the pain & suffering & huge cost involved...
obviously if you simply want a girder machine with an overhead valve engine then just build a special, I've done that myself & its nice to have the freedom of parts choice... but you wouldn't be considering buying this one in the first place.

The bike is very close to correct 37 M22 spec & has alot of nice parts on it & to disregard it over a tank transfer is short sighted... : D

UK price for that bike would be £7,700

I think that sounds fair. If you buy an old bike, there is always something to be done or changed. And also some money to be spent. It shouldn't have to scare anyone off, really.
If you wait for a perfect bike for a low price, don't hold your breath...
These bikes don't come up for sale very often and i too have the feeling that prices are still rising. Crisis or no crisis.

Grant,

If this is the M23 (or actually M22) on Youtube, you will find a thread from me detailing all the wrong bits. I agree with anyone who says that original bikes can't be found for low prices but a bitza 1930's bike has a value tha equals the price a buyer is willing to pay. If you want to bring it back to catalogue specifications however it is too much. Unless you do a lot of autojumbling you will have to buy the missing parts on Ebay at ridiculous prices.

If the spare bits are all 1930's bits from other BSA bikes however you might sell these on Ebay and still end up with a reasonably priced bike after all.

Best regards,
Leon

email (option): leonhop3@planet.nl

Did anyone see what this finally sold for?

It is hard to price but I know I paid too much for a 1930s bitsa last year!!

I am in the process of building a 37 M23 and have now completed the motor, gearbox and primary. The frame and forks i have are correct and I have just located tool boxes. However a 1937 tank still eludes me as do the guards. If you can help or steer me to a place that can I would be hugely grateful!

I am based in Sydney.

Peter pholl@bigpond.com

email (option): pholl@bigpond.com

Hi Peter,

Would need Leon's confirmation but I may have one. Did they come with hand shifter or not?

email (option): unpob@yahoo.com

Hi,
there is a tank for sale on ebay at the moment.
try; ebay uk - vintage veteran gastank BSA m22 m23

It's a replica...IMO that's the point you have to focus on...(or rather, not forget)

Because of that I look at it and think..'What could I build with that much money?'...or less

Get an M20 chassis and a B33 engine with period cycle parts and have essentially the same riding experience but with better spares availability...
It is quite easy to make such a machine look like a pre war sports single...

The only drawback is you have to build it yourself...Personally I wouldn't regard that as a drawback and I'd make the (stronger) B33 a 600 while I was about it and have a bike that was faster as well....

Take a look at Douglas's bike at the end of the 'Off topic query' post on this page..He has achieved a pre war look without changing that much but it would be easy to go further down that path.....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

As Ian has said, my take on a pre-war BSA.

email (option): iandot clare1at virgindotnet