I need 1 or 2 litres of Khaki Green No3 Satin Finish, Enough to give the bike M20) its top coat. I find a lot of paint suppliers have no idea what this colour is and offer a very small sample pic of their own colours for us to choose from so it is very easy to make a mistake. Any one have any No 3?

email (option): araine11@hotmail.com

Hi Arthur

Frank Burbery in Cornwall had some mixed to a pattern I supplied, I still haven't got around to trying it yet but I've heard good things about it.

But its white spirit based so you may not be abbe to use it on top of cellulose paint without a reaction?

Rob

http://www.milweb.net/dealers/trader/frankburberypaints/

email (option): robmiller11@yahoo.co.uk

I used some of his paint on a Phillips bicycle, it reacted with itself on the second coat and once dried for a week or two it was leant against the wall while I shut the door of my workshop and the paint scratched off the handlebars despite leaning it there very carefully..... need I say more!

email (option): davmax@ntlworld.com

Hi all,

KG3 is a difficult colour to replicate! make some paint samples from Mike Starners formula:

Khaki Green No. 3/ G3/ “Service Colour”
Mix: Revell/Humbrol tins 361+ 360 + 84 in ratios 12:5:7. Not easy but the only way yet. This is matched to two 1939 original equipment samples and a replicated 1941 sample.
In use: 1938 – 42.

Then take it to a good paint supplier to have it matched, I had it filled into a spray can, and primered and sprayed some 3"x3" pieces of tin, it should be almost 100% matt originally.

Have no good results from Burbery paint or RR paint, takes ages to dry!! keeps wrinkling, a real nightmare!

My 2 cents,

Lex

email (option): welbike@wish.net

So opinion differs on Frank Burbery's paint, I am about to start applying it to my Big4 so fingers crossed.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11@yahoo.co.uk

I've used FB paint on two vehicles now, mainly due to not being able to find an alternative that suited me. First time I used what was supplied and was happy(ish), as a novice painter, with the results. After explaining to Frank on the phone what I was after, I had ordered his equivalent of 1944 British 'Olive Drab'. Second time around, problem No.1 was I ordered from one of his samples, after having spoken to him on the phone again - and this time being told that there was no such thing as '1944 British Olive Drab'; even though he had previously supplied me with some! The paint that arrived based on the sample name looked completely different to the sample so I checked by phone with him that it was correct. I hoped it would dry different to what it looked in the tin. How dumb was I? Of course it dried just the same. So I checked back through his pile of samples that I had and guess what? There are two totally different colours with exactly the same description on the back. I had ordered based on one and he must have supplied based on the other. I had visions of getting just another of the same if I tried reordering the same colour so I ordered again a slightly different shade/and name that was acceptable. As a 'non paint pro' I dont find the stuff goes on easily, getting the ratio of paint to white spirit for spraying wasnt easy. The usual stuff, not enough and it wouldn't spray, too much and it ran or drooped. But I will put that down to my lack of talent rather than the paint. Faced with another job I will definitely look for a different supplier. That said the paint should not react if applied over cellulose. Cellulose over that would be a different matter.

email (option): cruiserchooser@hotmail.co.uk

I have used FB Service Brown Nr 2 paint and am very satisfied with the result.
I sprayed the smaller parts myself and had the lager parts sprayed by a friend of mine who ownes a car body workshop.
Not sure what he used for thinning the paint (certainly not white spirit) but after spraying and heating the cabin the paint dried rapidly.
After that it takes a few weeks before the paint has fully hardened.



Regards,
Peter

The problem with KG No.3 is that the chromate compounds originally used were not stable so suppliers have seen a thousand different colours claiming to be correct. As Lex says, we're pretty sure now that we've pinned the correct 'as new' shade down...but if it stays green then it will be wrong after six months....

The correct factory colour was something of a goose-shit green but it soon turned to a brown shade on contact with air (it oxidised quickly).

I used The Vintage Paint Company as they had done work in the past with Mike Starmer. Regrettably, their 'Isocyanate-free' 2-pack doesn't harden, regardless of proportions. Not only has it never become fuel-resistant, it also softens in contact with vinyl (so presumably the plasticisers also soften it) - I used modern black cable in some places and it has stuck to the paintwork. I was never able to get a satisfactory answer from the paint suppliers. They told me that I must've kept it too long before use (although they didn't tell me that when selling it.

I'm waiting for Lex to confirm that he's found the answer - he's certainly got the colour right. Sadly, I think that a slightly incorrect colour is better than paint that isn't worthy of the name.

I used FB on my Dunkirk G3WO and it applied well and has proved a good durable finish. I was amazed to find that the Khaki Greeb No 3 was an exact colour match to my original tool boxes. In fact it is such a good match you cannot detect that they were not painted at the same time. Cheers John

email (option): Tinley@btinternet.com

I use Jeeparts 'late war' olive drab mixed with dark camouflage brown..Colour can easily be adjusted for the right shade. The paint is a synthetic and I use synthetic 'fast' thinners....
It's easy to apply and quite forgiving in the hands of an amateur...I mix approx. 2 parts paint to one part thinners...
When I rebuild my M20 later this summer I'll probably try the Lechler satin lacquer as an added level of protection. This will make it petrol proof...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Ian, thanks for the info.If I were to make contact with Jeep and quote the mix would they know what I wanted and would it be close to Khaki No 3?

email (option): araine11@hotmail.com

Hi Arthur...No...I just bought both colours from Jeeparts and mixed them myself....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

If you google Jeeparts uk you should be able to find them straight away. I have used the dark olive drab, which is a pretty good colour straight from the tin, they also do a light olive drab , so please specify the dark one. Out of all the poor quality, non durable paints I've tried on various projects Jeeparts paint is about the most durable (none of them are particularly tough) and also the cheapest. When I ordered mine they gave me a choice of manufacturer, I specified Firwoods which I'd used before on a Harley and it and I was pretty impressed, although as I said, none of them are particularly durable. I raised the issue a good while back about getting a paint supplier to get the licence to keep the lead chromate on site which costs about £500 just for the licence, but there seemed to be a general apathy about it, surprisingly a lot of forum members wanted to stick to the modern non durable finishes. I presume that those that wanted to stick to the modern finishes hadn't ever tried lead based paint which is a shame as it is extremely durable and tends to scratch rather than chip off as modern finishes do, none of the modern paints I've tried seen to bond very well with the primer and they seem to be affected by petrol

email (option): davmax@ntlworld.com

I had 10 years in a body shop using old type two pack paints and am now restoring my old TRI-BSA which I sprayed 8 years back and is still reasonable and framework has no rust issues just looks a bit tired.Why would anyone build a bike and use a paint which is affected petrol My WM20 is painted using two pack paint mainly hand painted only sprayed the tank and wheels and still looks good 4 years on, this is a bronze green so is a gloss finish but ethanol still can mark spillages on tank but these are easily removed using a rubbing compound to cut paint back also any marks dings can easily be touched in.I think I would rather have a durable machine than go for the look of right shade of period paint.Modern paints are crap end of.. I made sure I had a good supply of leaded black two pack and other various shades I might need in the future when they removed the old system at work.. as for shelf life I have a gallon tin of olive drab dated 1943 the guy I bought my WM20 from gave it to me but I didnt use it during rebuild of bike as once I removed the lid the paint had seperated leaving a gooey mess in the bottom of tin I have now mixed this paint into decent mix and decanted it into new 1 litre cans for future use.Also seems most matt paints attract moisture and and you have surface rust appearing as on a mates ex army ducati single.At the end of the day you can go for looks or durability your choice, bloody health and safety = no lead Dave

Some 3 years ago I spent a small fortune having all the pieces of my M20 professionally painted with the recomended two pack paint on pick up the painter gave me a small tin of touch up paint warning me that chipping was inevitable we'll he was right but only the top coat chipped leaving a yellow primer scar after assembling the frame the touch up paint was gone, and the frame looked like a small boys arm after falling into a gorse bush . I went along to my local auto barn shop and had them mix me a spray can of a GM colour olive Drab paint code 85091 it is I believe it is the post Vietnam Pre Iraq colour the US army used on its GS vehicles I tried it over the two pack on the mudguard stays it did not react with the 2 pack dried quickly and when fitted did not crack off I have now reprinted all components except the frame and tank and there is many pluss no cracking chipping or other damage only down side a spray can does not cover a large area and it is reasonably expensive $35.00 per can

email (option): Grumpy.moran@gmail.com

Doesn't anybody use stove enamelling any more? At one time it was the only way to go to have bike parts painted. I've had mine done and have no probs with it at all. I know it costs a bit but it lasts and lasts.

Hi All
I'm thinking of painting my Norton in this color and would like to get a sample to the paint shop !
My question is can I get the sample pots in quantities 8xR361 1xR360 and 3xR84 instead of 12, 5 and 7 in the tech section (it's the same ratio) or does it not work that way ?
Cheers Stu

email (option): stuartcameron66@hotmail.com

I don't understand it...If you can buy the constituent colours for mixing why not buy them and just mix it yourself rather than relying on someone else to achieve the results you want...?

For WD bikes I buy the base colours and mix till I get exactly the shade I want..it isn't difficult.

Also, I would guess most people don't worry too much about the durability of the paint finish on their modern bike or car...Why...?..Because it is protected by a clear coat lacquer...

These are available in a matt, satin or gloss finish so you can apply the finish you want whilst protecting the paintwork from petrol, grease, dirt etc. and enhancing the resistance to damage...

Clearcoat will go over most paint types without problems it appears...

I have some matt clearcoat to try out with after I saw the good results achieved by Lee Davey when he rebuilt his M20....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

I got a firm to mix mine a while back in the original lead chromate paint.

I posted on here at the time if anyone wanted to join up and get a batch done, but they did not, so just got myself 5 litres and 5 litres of light undercoat.

I asked for a RAL colour and it matches my bike perfectly. With all the discussions on here about paint and the lack of decent quality stuff, I am glad I did now.

email (option): dwrudd at lineone.net

I'm very pleased with the same stuff as Darren organised, it's tough, when it does scratch it dosen't chip off, it scratches.
Good Stuff!

email (option): davmax@ntlworld.com

Thanks for the replies Ian, Darren and Dave !
Ian given that I can get the base colors and mix it myself to khaki 3 I'll need a sample to mix to ?
If I use the tech section on colors and mix the 3 Revell shades in quantities 12,7 and 5 as described would I not get the same outcome if I used quantities (4 less of each) 8,3 and 1 ?
Hoping this makes sense !
Cheers Stu

email (option): stuartcameron66@hotmail.com

It's very easy to get bogged down with the exact paint colour and after going to Normandy and seeing lots of WD bikes together, I realised there is no such thing. Everyone has their own interpretation and most of the bikes looked great.

I mixed 2 parts Olive Drab 2-pack, to 1 part Service Brown and added a lighter green until I liked the colour. The smallest amount of brown will alter the colour. My bike also looks more green in the garage than it does outside in the Sun, where it looks more brown, so what is the right colour..? Answer... Who cares as long as I'm happy with it

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Thanks Ron and Horror
That makes more sense to halve or quarter the amounts Im not after an exact match but at the moment i dont have anything to match to !
Cheers Stu

email (option): stuartcameron66@hotmail.com

Stu. If I want to work to some sort of formula. I sometimes use a coffee jar, put a 12" rule inside and mark it on the outside with a felt pen. A small straight sided jar could be marked in such a way in segments of 12-7-5 mm placed on a flat surface and paint gently poured in to each line. However I'm not sure how much paint/money that would save you. At about £1.50 a tin, 24 tins would make an expensive paint swatch.

However if you email me with your address I can send/loan you a sample Khaki No3 Swatch from Lex.

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Thanks Ron
The 24 little cans will cost close to $100 hence my scrooge arithmetic !
email sent !
Cheers Stu

email (option): stuartcameron66@hotmail.com

When I restored my 1940 M20, I found one of the primary cover spacers had been coated with grease, and never repainted-it was exactly this shade of Service Brown #2. Even though I repainted the bike, I left that spacer as a reference.

email (option): m20wc51@yahoo.com

My 41 bike was also brown under the hand painted green, and I repainted it green. From what's been said before on this forum, it seems that more bikes were brown than we think.

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

Rookie mistake on my part, getting everything blasted before getting paint samples !
Although I wasn't even sure at that stage I was going back to WD !
Ron has kindly lent me a sample and sent me pics of the finished bike which looks fantastic.
Thanks everyone for your thoughts !
Cheers Stu

email (option): stuartcameron66@hotmail.com

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

I spent some time with Mike Starmer matching colours and I can confirm that we're not talking about pots of paint when dealing with the proportions...he actually uses simply the tip of a modelling paint brush. It's possible to be very consistent doing it this way....so 'three parts' would be three tips of the brush.

In order to match the colour, you'll need just the smallest pot that you can buy of each ingredient colour.

Ron Pier

Horror

From what's been said before on this forum, it seems that more bikes were brown than we think.

Horror is right of course. I think the directive for Service Brown ran from sometime in 1941 till the need to conform to an American Colour in 1944 when British Olive Drab was introduced. There is something in our minds though, that seems to relates to "ARMY GREEN" I can't ever remember any of my Military Dinky Toys being Brown when I was a kid. Ron

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk