Hi There
Does anyone know when the subcontinent started making parts for our wd bikes? I know ebay started about 1995 but was India making parts before that? I'm talking specifically about parts for wd bikes, I know about the Royal Enfield business.
Thanks

I did some work on a plunger M21 that a chap from this area rode back from Pakistan..It was a bit of a disaster zone mechanically...No, it was a major diaster zone mechanically..but the point was it had a few locally made/modifierd parts on it...Among other things the seat was a replica of a Harley 'buddy' seat from the 60s and had obviously been in place for a long time...Unless the Pakistanis were into 'retro' a long time ago there is every possibility it was a copy of a 'current' style and may have dated from that period or soon after...Both countries had a 'make do and mend' culture so I would imagine parts reproduction goes back a long way...After Indian independence in 1948 the 'normal' supply network probably disappeared gradually, but there remained a requirement to keep all the vehicles imported under the British (and left behind by the Army) running. Also, Indias heavy import taxes which were at a level specifically intended to discourage imports (and still are), have ensured that remained the case for many years.....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Thanks for your comment Ian
The reason I was asking is that I've had my current bike about 20 years now and it suddenly occured to me that maybe a previous owner had fitted reproduction parts from India. It hadn't crossed my mind before as I thought my bike was original and that Indian parts where a recent thing but what if they had been doing it for 30 or 40 years! It would be hard to tell what was what.

The Indian parts would be the parts that snapped or didn't fit properly... ...Although I think it has been going on over there for years probably, the arrival of quality Indian parts on these shores is far more recent...I bought my first bike 42years ago and currently have one I have owned for 34 years and another 28 years...I certainly have no recollection of Indian parts being available until relatively recently..maybe 20 years or so?..Perhaps though, I didn't notice the early stuff because I always went for NOS or British made parts which were far more common then....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Some of our local suppliers have been sourcing parts from India for a long time.
These have usually been quite good quality as they were made to order by the shops who checked them & sent the discards back.
The only thing was they did not tell you where they came from and the parts were usually unbranded.
A lot of good quality pattern parts still come from India, particularly forgings .
However thanks to the www there is a lot of rubbish coming out of India because we are the cheapest bastards on earth and will scour the planet to find a part that is the cheapest available regardlesss of the quality.

In over 20 years as the secretary of the BSAMCC of NSW I have never had a single person ask me ;-
" where can I get the best quality part ? " And I used to get near 100 enquiries a week .
All any one ever want to know was where they can get a cheaper one . Even worse were the abusive bastards who poured a tyraid of abuse at me because I would not divulge our clubs "secret stash " or "secret supplier " ( which we have never had ) to them. You could have no idea of just how soul destroying that is for some one who was donating thousands of hours to helping others.

People oft rang at stupid hours desperate to find the "last unobainable part" so I would check a few who might have one and when I told them who could supply the ellusive item I got another ear bashing because "he was a robber and we must know some one with cheaper ones ".

It is a very sad reflection on "civilised humans " that the more we have the greedier & cheaper we become .
Just before the last Pommie bike shop in Sydney ( jim Eddies) closed down Max confided in me that there were less than a dozen persons like myself who always asked for the top quality parts that he had and didn't then haggle over the price.

Ryans closed several years earlier and started to trade on the internet but Barry closed that down for the same reason. People would ring desperate to get an ellusive part and when he found one they would tell him what he had to charge for it because they had seen on else where for less. He eventually got fed up so now only supplies his trade customers and spends his days restoring .

email (option): wariron@tpg.com.au

Hi Trevor...All the same here..I worked in a British bike shop in Plymouth and customers routinely went for the cheapest, not the best option...It always surprised me that people thought thier Norton, BSA, etc. was the best bike and it was also thier hobby, yet they then bought the cheapest parts for it...You would have thought they'd want the best they could afford.
Times haven't changed much frankly...Owners will pay enormously high prices for NOS or used original parts on e bay...but try selling them some good quality repro parts, it's then frequently a very different story...
The reason the world is full of poor quality replica parts is that people consistently, over a period of decades, chose the cheaper option..If they hadn't Hepolite pistons etc. etc. etc. would still be available...
Nothing winds me up more than those same people moaning about the poor quality of many of the spares that are currently on offer....'As you sow the seed, so you will reap the harvest' as they say...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Funnily enough I was at Russell Motors talking to Les last week. He was telling my about years ago when his old dear parted Dad used to get good quality repro parts made in India by "Granddad" Then after "Granddad" died his kids took over and you had to watch them and sometimes reject stuff. Now The "Grand-kids own the company and they are lying, cheating, thieving buggers and the quality is too poor to contemplate selling from his shop. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Unfortunately that's not a view shared by a lot of other retailers who are out there selling it.. ...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

It's certainly not fair to just blame the punters. One of the problems is that greedy retailers (or perhaps more often, greedy wholesalers) have charged top money for ill-fitting junk which has led to the mentality of 'if it's not going to fit properly and will need re-making before I can use it, then I might as well have cheap ill-fitting junk rather than pay over the odds for it'.

In the world of later Nortons, Andover Norton seems to have been more or less able to retain a market that demands quality and is prepared to pay a reasonable price for it. That doesn't stop one or two of the big dealers charging the same for badly made pattern parts which undermines the whole market.

A friend of mine in the trade says that owners of 1970s Triumphs are the biggest cheapskates and he stocks Wassell to supply them as given a choice, most of the Triumph owners over here are more concerned with the look of the bike than the riding qualities and will always choose pattern if available.

There is a chap in this month's 'Real Classic' who has built a flat-tank look-alike thing using a WD16H engine (and a home-made frame, I think) and has fitted a set of Indian girders, they look to be the Ariel type. He says he's ridden 1000 miles so far...rather him than me.

It appears responsibility for the dire standard of parts currently being supplied can be laid at the feet of many suppliers and there is no doubt that to a degree that is so..However, you have to remember they stock what they can sell...If the pressure from customers in the first instance is for a low price and thier priority is not good quality, then the result is inevitable and those who insist on stocking more expensive parts won't sell much....The character of the market is ultimately determined by the customer if anyone wants to stay in business...In other words you cannot survive if you don't supply what customers want or are prepared to buy....
I remember when Hepworths stopped making B33 pistons....I asked Peter Hepworth why they were dropping that piston...along with others. He told me they were only prepared to manufacture a piston that they considered to be to a good specification...and that cost a certain amount of money.. But customers were choosing cheaper, lower quality imported pistons and they could no longer match that price with a quality product...So it was 'game over' as far as he was concerned...
Trevors observations and my own absolutely confirm that historically customers have, in the majority, gone for the cheapest option and suppliers and manufacturers have responded to that by sourcing cheaper products or by dropping manufacturing standards...
It has taken years to arrive at the current situation and in the long term it has led to the disappearance of many quality manufacturers...
The current trend towards low, or no, use of bikes also hasn't helped...The fitting of poor quality parts doesn't come to light and doesn't matter if the bike isn't used much (or at all). In many instances though, it couldn't be done without failure if higher mileages were involved....
One way or another the supply of parts is in a real mess and it is unlikely to improve unless attitudes change at all levels....Personally I can't see much pressure for change at the moment though...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

I have learnt the hard way through no fault of my own. When a bike shop ruined my Commando cam followers and replaced them with Wassel ones. I had several cam failures until I realised it was the new followers that were failing not the cams. Now I will only buy good quality engine parts, not to is just false economy.
I am trying to recondition a Lucas Altette horn and bought some gaskets from ebay. The seller is Taff, and he includes some instructions with them pointing out that the Wassel repro bezels being sold as refurb kits on ebay are crimping the horm diaphragm edges so the points do not move, causing the windings to burn out instantly. Wassel are aware of the problem there bezels are causing but are still selling them..!

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

thought i`d give the indians a go recently as i am building up a couple of m20 type bikes,
ordered a 39 m20 deluxe tank, tool box, m20 fuel cap,complete 8inch headlamp and a complete chain guard. all up $650.00 au dollars delivered,
i was told it would take up to six weeks to deliver,the items arrived in a bit over four weeks.
i was really happy with the tank quality and fit,toolbox a bit rough around the lid edges but easier to repair than some used ones i have seen for around twice the price,some of the used m20 parts at swap meets around here it is just rubbish, fuel cap no problem,headlamp great,on the upper chainguard the outer rear curve will need about five minutes work.
i am really happy with the service i recieved as i did change the order once being a panel beater / spray painter a few minor repairs does not worry me
hope this feed back helps ebay seller was vinxxxe connxxxxxxs cheers

I needed a pair of rear mudguard stays for a swing arm goldstar having mailed / phoned several suppliers I asked for the mounting hole centre measurements the difference from some was staggering and would no way fit.So decided to make a pair in stainless took a mornings work and a trip to a mate to get them welded, I only have arc/mig weld but no tig. Most old bike owners I know have good resources and can make most parts needed for their restorations,I have a lathe/welding gear,spraying equipment, pipe benders,press etc also have a good mate who is a excellent engineer with a well equipped workshop who can tackle stuff I dont have the machinery/knowledge for.My point is most of the time its easier to make it yourself than buy from abroad unseen,but if you do be prepared to alter/modify it to fit.As for engine parts I always buy the best I can find, I have never fitted a pattern piston or crap foreign bearings to any of my own engines, but did when I worked in a bike shop as most owners want a cheap fix and it was out of my hands as a employee Dave P.S I know about wassell parts I bought a 8" headlamp unit from them the pre focus bulb holder was a mile out and I had to modify a original holder to make it work seems no one checks ..I did mail them to tell of problem. no reply

Wassells aren't interested in (your)problems and rarely act to rectify them when they appear..A lot of what you get from them that doesn't fit originates in India...those 8" headlamps for example...
Your comment about 'cheap fixes' reinforces my observations on common customer attitudes though and helps to explain why we are where we are...
...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Guys, I've seen quite a bit of reference to Wassels in this post and from what I can gather, my impression is that the quality is perhaps a little dubious?

The reason I ask is because I need to source a seat for my wideline domi at some stage in the not too distant future, and a few of the items I've seen advertised on eBay actually state that they are from Wassels.

So I guess that the question would be: "Do I, or don't I?"

Bear in mind that being resident on the southern tip of Africa means that any mistake will be very costly! The postage is about the same cost as the part!

email (option): brucekirby@telkomsa.net

Andover Norton are making Dommie seats. I know they do them for the Slimline, but e-mail them and see if they do a Wideline seat.
Otherwise RGM do Wideline seats, but I'm not sure who makes them, and (dare I say it) there's always Norvil

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

Was that a panel tank Dave? A friend of mine was thinking of one. He bought a chrome B31 tank but we had to modify underneath to clear the valve lifter because the front mounting tabs were too high.Otherwise it was a nice job. The maker sent him an extra unchromed tank with just the postage charge to make up for it. They're not all bad.

yes douglas it is a panel tank advertised as NEW BSA M20/21 DLX/M22/23/24 RAW PETROL TANK 1938-40 ,fits the same underneath as the army tank,have done a rough fit and can`t see any problems cheers

Is there a proper cutaway for an overhead valve engine? Could you send a picture of it underneath?

douglas,if you post up your email address i`ll get some pics to you,i have`nt mastered the uploading to forums yet

Is it safe to do that here?

Ciao Dave wm20, could you please idicate me "your indian supplier"? I need some spares but i have no idea about good suppliers. thanks Devis

email (option): vadori@libero.it

hope this direct link works
http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad315/daave57/bsatank021_zps1363db7a.jpg
got the tank through ebay vintageconnexions

Thanks a lot !!!
Devis

email (option): vadori@libero.it

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/250986186921?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 Not this mob then?