I have just viewed what was supposed to be a 1938 16H. It was a no doc's bitza, with a sidecar. The engine was a post war 'chimney pot' big 4 with an upright gearbox a bit like the 'dolls head'. The only box I've seen like it was on an ohc. The frame is girder rigid. Any idea what the box is and where to find the frame number? All there barn find non runner,fag end tail light, asking 3K Not bad for a 16H not so good a post war big 4 ?

Cheers Pat

Pat, the only place for the frame number is as per the photos on Rob van den Brink's website - on the drive side front fuel tank mounting lug.

Post-war (1946-on), Norton tidied up the gear selector mechanism and this is generally known as the 'upright' box to distingush it from the 'laydown' box introduced for the twins which only came to the singles later.

I believe that the upright box retains the same shell and cluster as the 'doll's head' - so check the top ears are OK. It should be possible to replace the outer covers with the earlier type and then only the serial number would be a giveaway. However, I haven't tried it myself so usual disclaimers apply.

WD16H engines are not that hard to find (although not cheap to rebuild from scrap parts).

Are the seat spring lugs on the frame vertical or horizontal ?

Let's see some pics Pat.

Tim W

email (option): t.j.walker@btinternet.com

By the way Tim, are you the seller using a picture of your '35 16H with the basket case on eBay at the moment or has someone 'lifted' your photo from the Norton blog ?

I will try to get a better look later in the week. I just looked up the engine number it is a 1948 big 4 82x113 mm any ideas what M802 stamped on the front of the drive side crankcase is? Also will the frame number identify the model? Are there any pictures of the 16H / Big4 sidecar chassis to see what this thing is? Sorry no photo's this forum is as Tech as I get.

Cheers Pat

A number stamped on the front edge of the case is usually a 'shop' number or engine build reference. It has no relevance once the bike left the factory.

Post-war Nortons have a model code in the frame number (and matched the engine). If it's an 'open diamond' frame and not a cradle then it is pre-war or WD. If the number is prefixed with a 'W' then it is WD16H - If it has an 'S' then go back and collect it tonight before he changes his mind or Lex gets there !

Pre-war frame numbers contain no model code and were not assembled consecutively. The same frames were used for 16H, Big 4, Model 18, Model 19 and Model 20. They changed in details several times over the pre-war period.

Odds are that it's a WD16H that was fitted with a Big 4 engine for pulling the chair. If it's a heavyweight Norton chassis from the same period then it should have the loop over the wheel.

Pat and Rik,
Frame numbers are where Rik says under the tank on the downtube lug on the left hand side. As far as i can remember the gearbox has the same shell as the WD type and the same cluster but the two end covers are different. The magneto on this latter engine is the other direction drive compared with a WD 16H due to the re arangment of the camshaft drive. So if you are thinking of fitting a WD engine and use this mag you will have to fit the other rotation type of face cam.
Rik,
Yes i have seen the listing, went to check the 16h is still in my shed! I have mailed the guy and he says he pulled the pic off the internet. His listing does make it clear that the pic is not the pile of parts he is selling. Not much i can do about it really but thanks for letting me know.
Pat If you can get a pic of the bike it would be nice to see.

Tim W

email (option): t.j.walker@btinternet.com

Tim, the fact that the seller's name seems to be 'Tim' as well confused me slightly...

The forks and footrest hangers on that bike look to be civilian but I can't really see the rest. Wrapping the frame in blue shrink-wrap is a first !

Pat, if you have a digital photo and can mail it, any one of us will happliy post it here.

email (option): t.j.walker@btinternet.com