I've just taken over two new (or, rather, refurbished) lock up garages and shifted my gear into them. They've had the floors epoxied, the walls painted and the doors replaced.

Nice.

Except it isn't. I've got three bikes in one garage, including the M20, and a fibre glass bodied kit car in the other, and all are covered in condensation.

I never had this problem with the other garages (a little further along in the same block), not that I remember, anyway. But then, the old doors were very poorly fitting. These new doors are tighter than Ian's wallet*, so I suppose ventilation, or the lack of it, is the problem.

I've had the doors open today for a few hours to try and air the garages, but it hasn't made much difference. So is the air really that saturated? I'm in London, by the way.

I'm just wondering what others do to deal with this, and who's got intelligent solutions (sit down, Rik**).

It looks like I'm going to be taking a drill to the doors, but my landlord might have something to say about that. I'm not sure that heating is wise. But what do you guys say?



* Just kidding, Ian
** Just kidding, Rik

email (option): dannydefazio@sumpmagazine.com

Danny, I have the same problem with a mini-digger and some other plant that i keep in a barn at the moment,no problem with ventilation in there but everything is wet. I think the warm (relatively)/wet atmosphere coming into contact with cold metal is the possible cause.Dont know if there's a real cure but i blast everything with Duck Oil. Mick.

Hi Mick, thanks for that. I'll have to haul the bikes out when it dries for a while and get some oil all over them. And condensation is the obvious cause, of course.

But I can't remember it being this bad before. There's stuff in the garage that's dripping. Walls are wet too. Maybe warming up the garage with some kind of heater is the answer, but I don't have electric in there, so it means some other kind of heater - and I don't much like the idea of that.

Maybe it is just a unique combination of weather conditions, but it's certainly odd.

Does anyone use sheets or blanket to any useful effect? Or does anyone have any other sensible ideas?

email (option): dannydefazio@sumpmagazine.com

I would take them out of that environment till you get them sorted, sounds like the garages do need air circulation. If condensation is forming on the outside of the bikes some will be forming on the inside of the oil tank (above the oil line) and on the inside of the engine.
A few years ago a mate of mine got a steel container to store the contents of his garage while he was having a new workshop built. He had a very smart 1970 BMW he put it in the container for 2 years. When he opened it the BMW was in a poor state, he gave it to me to re commission, I drained the gearbox and engine and was amazed at how much water came out with the oil. All the alloy parts had furred up and what chrome was on the bike had rusted.
Drilling holes could be the answer but maybe not in the landlord's doors!

Tim W

email (option): t.j.walker@btinternet.com

Sounds like you have warm air infiltration. What you are describing does not happen just because the space is unheated. Are the garages attached to a building which is heated, or is there a connection to a heated building, like through a common basement or crawl space? Cold air holds less water than warm, which is why, for example, the vapor barrier of house insulation is installed on the heated side of an exterior wall. If warm air is coming into your unheated garages, it is cooled down by the air of the garages and gives up its water in the form of condensation. Find out where the warm air is coming from and seal it off, and your problem will be solved. Otherwise you have no choice but to heat the garages so that the warm air remains (relatively) warm, or provide sufficient ventilation to remove the extra moisture. Depending on the size of the space, it may require a really big fan to the outside - and don't forget that if you are pumping air out you need to provide a means for replacement air to come in.

email (option): jonny.rudge@verizon.net

Thanks Tim and John. There's no obvious warm air entering the garages, and moving the bikes isn't an option at the moment. I've got no other secure storage (just another garage that's out of sight, whereas this one is right under my video camera).

The garage block is just an ordinary block, free standing. Most of the other garages are empty. The bikes went in dry. So did the other stuff.

I'm wondering whether the recent sealing of the floor, the painting of the walls, and the sealing of the interior of the ceiling has made a difference.

The floor used to be bare concrete. Now it's epoxy. Can that make a difference? Concrete is porous, but I can't imagine it making a big difference.

As I said, I think the biggest problem is simple ventillation. But there are a lot of wet walls in my neighbourhood. I mean SERIOUSLY wet. Maybe it's some kind of weather thing, but I can't imagine what would make it so bad.

Am naturally concerned about leaving the bikes even for another night under these conditions. Maybe it's time to get some heaters out, but it needs a dry heat source. That could be a little tricky.

email (option): dannydefazio@sumpmagazine.com

I had exactly the same problem, so I cut an inch off the bottom of the doors to let the air circulate and it seems to have done the trick. Perhaps, not much help if the doors belong to someone else though!?!

Hi Danny..If you have just moved your kit from a cold garage to a better insulated and warmer one it will take a day or two for the lumps of metal to warm up...at which point the condensation should stop as the temperatures align.
Conversely..if your new garages are badly insulated the temperature of what is in them will fall and rise along with the outside temperature.
However, in the Spring and Autumn/early Winter there are rapid and relatively large temperature fluctuations, often over a day or less. The metal of your bikes doesn't change temperature that quickly though, so for a period the warm air/cold surface conditions exist that allow condensation to form. The solution to that problem is to insulate the building internally so everything remains at a more constant, warmer temperature.. Alternatively use Bills solution and maintain a more constant lower temperature...the problem with that though may be the ingress of damp air which you don't really want where you hacked the bottom of the doors off/drilled holes etc...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Danny,

Sheeting did not work for me, I store my vintage bike in a stable with a stone flagged floor, foolishly a few years ago I put a sheet of plastic over the bike for the winter. What happened is damp or condensation from the changing temperature of the floor got trapped under the sheet. The plastic sheet had a film of condensation under it against the bike for most of the winter. I now but a large sheet of the black damp course sheet on the floor than cover the bike with a thin cotton sheet, this works for me. I also have a large gap under the door and get a good circulation of air.

Tim W

email (option): t.j.walker@btinternet.com

As you've realised Danny, there isn't much chance of a sensible answer from me. Personally, I find that central heating pipes under the floor provide a complete answer and allow me to work on the bike bare-foot, even in the middle of winter. Not really an option in a lock-up though.

The air is absolutely saturated at the moment and December is always just about the worst month for it.

Is the new door insulated, and if not, are you able to do something about that ? It will help reduce the variations in temperature that steel doors seem to accentuate.

A proper de-humidifier will help but you'd need power. Otherwise it's probably down to vac-bags or lots of WD40.

The former porosity of the concrete did not contribute to the drying of the space. If anything, it let moisture in, rather than out. At the risk of pointing out the obvious, are the floor coating and the paint completely dry? Could they have been the source of the moisture? The only other thing I can think of, no knowing your particular setup, is if the garage is partly built into the ground, such as would be the case if it were on hilly terrain. In that case, the place where the walls are below the surrounding grade could be a source of moisture. Waterproofing paint should take care of that, although, if you apply it on the inside of the wall you'll need to re-apply it every six months to a year. To apply it on the outside you'll need to dig around the structure.

email (option): jonny.rudge@verizon.net

Thanks everyone. Lots of intelligent thoughts here.

The bikes were actually moved a few weeks ago, Ian. So that's not an issue for me. And Rik's idea of proper heating is the long term solution, but not an option for me. Maintaining a contant temperature is the best I can try and do, but that's not easy. London has a "heat island" effect, so it can get fairly warm in the day (for December). I think we had around 11 or 13 degrees today coupled with rain. It's heavily overcast now.

That, of course, is a recipe for the problems I'm having, especially when coupled with poor ventilation. It looks like I'm going to be leaving the doors wide open for a few hours and watch the video camera tonight instead of the TV.

The floor and wall paint/sealers are about a month old and fairly dry (quick drying expoxy, etc). Maybe it's just a combination of unwanted things. Meanwhile, my M20 is now a very distinct matt finish whereas it used to be parade gloss.

Thanks again everyone.

email (option): dannydefazio@sumpmagazine.com

Surely you've got a spare room inside the house where it's warm? Perhaps a little space where you can squeeze the bikes in next to the bed?

I wish that there was a quick and easy way to make my 16H properly matt instead of half shiny without dismantling it all.

I've had quite a lot of success in reducing temperature fluctuations by gluing 'Styrodur' or similar to the inside of steel doors.

Leaving the doors open sounds a bit drastic. I'd rather have a bit of corrosion than the local 'tea-leaves' knowing what's in there.

It might just be a question of putting up with it until the weather cools down or warms up a bit. At this time of year, I even get condensation under the car port and there is no lack of airflow there.

Bill, I wish I could get the bikes beside my bed, but where would I put my Fender guitars, my Fender amp, my piano, my old valve radio and all my other toys?

Note to Rik, I mostly am going to put up with it, but I can safely leave the doors up for a few hours. I stuck my car in front of both garages and, like I said, I've got a CCTV video camera on it.

I think that insulating the garage door is a very sound idea. I'll look into that.

email (option): dannydefazio@sumpmagazine.com

Hi Danny,

the 'secret solution' is ventilating at (least at) the bottom..
I have an old shed with a door that has some 'room' at the bottom side.
As windstreams often stay low and colder wet air drops this will make a natural movement of the unwanted wet moisture.
Airflow is the key word that works for me.

Good luck!
Regards,
Sven

email (option): snvosselman@gmail.com

Thanks, Sven. I think you're right.

email (option): dannydefazio@sumpmagazine.com

http://www.b50.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3698

Danny. Quiet a few ideas on this link. They do drift from the thread a bit (does that sound familiar?), but keep with it till the end.

Dont even think of using gas or oil heaters. Thay will cause even more condensation.

email (option): Gasboy@btinternet.com

I've had the same problem Danny, so I always spray the bikes with Duck oil or similar cheap spray and cover them with cotton sheets. This also stops dust etc sticking to the oil and the bikes looking a right mess. In the Summer I get them out and wash the oil off with hot soapy water and everything's good. On the occasions when I haven't done this I've noticed rust spots appearing on some chrome work. I have good ventilation in the garage but it's not lagged out so that may help. I don't know it a dehumidifier would work..? But not if you have no electric.

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

I've had the same problem Danny, so I always spray the bikes with Duck oil or similar cheap spray and cover them with cotton sheets. This also stops dust etc sticking to the oil and the bikes looking a right mess. In the Summer I get them out and wash the oil off with hot soapy water and everything's good. On the occasions when I haven't done this I've noticed rust spots appearing on some chrome work. I have good ventilation in the garage but it's not lagged out so that may help. I don't know it a dehumidifier would work..? But not if you have no electric.

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

use as suggested plywood or mdf you dont have to screw it to the walls just something to hold it in place raise it slightly off the floor with say pieces of paving slabs the plywood/mdf will tend to absorb some of the condensation a gap under the door and if it has got a corrogated roof and the corrogations are blocked unblock a few what you need is air curculating my drafty shed even in this weather is dry also go and get a double mattress plasic cover one they are delivered in put your bike inside with a bit of cardboard on the bottom so the tyres and stand dont cut it spray a little wd 40 on it use the wife's hairdryer when she is not about blow hot air into cover when you think it fairly dry cable tie the end a few time one seal bike for the winter

email (option): roger.beck@node6.com

This has been a very damp year!!!!! I have open sided barns that have been raining off the roof this year. The way to go is insulation, foil backed foam sheet is easy to work with, non flamable and comes in 8'x4' sheets. Just cut it slightly oversise and wedge it in place. I used the 35mm thick stuff on a stone built cave with a tin roof and with some very low level heating it seems to work. All the big machinery gets blasted over with oil and parafin mix. I would stay away from MDF as it soaks up damp unless sealed.

Cheers Pat

Thanks, everyone. I should have mentioned that I want to use the bikes over the winter rather than seal them up until the Spring. But there's plenty of ideas here to keep me occupied. Cheers.

email (option): dannydefazio@sumpmagazine.com

I mix engine oil and paraffin in equal parts and apply it liberally all over the bike when it is dry, using one of those plant sprayer bottles....I repeat the dose frequently throughout the Winter..My 'daily hack' M21 used to look awful but after 7 winters of use there was no rust...A major 'spring clean' when the salt had gone and the weather improved revealed the same old bike...My B33 is the current hack and is receiving the same treatment and to be honest I don't think much about how damp my garage might be, knowing the bike is protected. In fact I frequently don't bother to put the bike in there......Ian.

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

There's only one way to use a bike through the winter and preserve it, and that's to get a pot of grease and wipe it over all the chrome or exposed metal parts. The bike looks a mess but keeps the road salt off. I used to do this regularly to my Trident, then pressure wash it off in the summer. But the last time I used it on a very cold but sunny day, the roads had just been gritted and the ice was melting. I got home freezing cold and got the bike in the garage as quick as I could as I could hardly move from the cold. I went back into the garage 2 weeks later and the ally engine was white with road salt. Even after pressure washing it off as soon as I realised, the engine never came back to shinny ally but now has a grey look to it The chrome was bright though..!

Ah Ian, you've got your post in before me yes any type of oil will do it.

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

Hi Horror...Is synchronised posting an Olympic event?.. ...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

I used to run my A10 combo all thru the year and found the best way to protect the alloy and chrome parts (apart from ex system) was to use damp start ignition sealer.This forms a flexible covering to any surface also great to seal magneto parts and pickups.Can also be used for a bike that is stood up for winter.I now dont bother as I use my 41 WM20 thru winter this has no chrome or exposed alloy as the engine and gearbox are painted green just make sure all control cables are well lubed as well as rear chain. Dave

The stuff I can recommend is ACF 50.
It is used by the aviation industry as a corrosion inhibitor. Just spray on and wipe over the bike with a rag. On our bikes it leaves that oily rag patina, but the bike isnt filthy. I spray it all over the bike and inside places like the headlamp, where it also protects against wiring terminal corrosion.
They also sell a dielectric grease which is good for sealing electrical components and terminals.

I have no connection with the product other than a satisfied customer who uses it on all my bikes.

email (option): Gasboy@btinternet.com

Hi Danny
I agree with the ACF50 spray. Originally designed for alloy rivets on aircraft it really does work.

I would add to that, if you visit a caravan shop you can buy quite cheaply some moisture traps. These have white crystals which attract moisture into a plastic container and would certainly help keep the air dry. They are only cheap and work a treat.

Good luck !

email (option): dwrudd@lineone.net

Well Danny I agree with Bill.
Keep the bikes in the bedroom,that way ypu can get a 'leg over'anytime you want,and the bikes will be dry and happy,same as you !!!!

Thanks for all the tips. Will consider them all.

email (option): dannydefazio@sumpmagazine.com

darren i used a washing up bowl full of salt in my caravan over winter this worked well

email (option): roger.beck@node6.com

Yes Roger I have heard that one too, but these little traps take so much moisture out of the atmosphere, they need to be emptied of water on a regulat basis. It is amazing how they work and are only cheap too.

Darren

email (option): dwrudd@lineone.net