Hi All,
There were two unrestored British military motorcycles up for auction today in Indiana, USA. The first was a 1940 Ariel W/NG which went for $6250, and a Norton WD-16H that sold for $8000. The results seem to me to be fairly low given the original, unrestored nature of the motorbikes, especially for the Ariel. Here's hoping they went to appreciative garages!
Link to the auction:
http://www.auctionsamerica.com/events/all-lots.cfm?order=lotnumber&noreserve=&Day=&category=&year=Year+or+Lot+Number&make=&model=Model&SaleCode=MM12
Here are the motorbikes:
/Users/markfrost/Dropbox/Photos/Military M:C/1940Ariel.jpg
/Users/markfrost/Dropbox/Photos/Military M:C/1940 Norton 16H.jpg
(Can someone PM me on how to get these photos to show up as photos on a post...THX)
email (option): wingco40@hotmail.com
That collection was pretty much the stock of the old 'Victory Memorial Museum' in Arlon Belgium which was sold lock, stock and barrel to the US about ten or twelve years ago.
They had some unusual exhibits, particularly the German stuff but the British and Commonwealth items were not restored to a high standard - mostly just a coat of paint.
Ron would be interested in what happened to Lot 152 - the Morris Commercial PU8/4. Any idea on the price and the buyer ?
I have just been watching the auction live on the internet. How does anyone understand these American auctioneers?
Anyway lot 152 (Morris PU 8/4 in a very sad state) Just sold for about £7500 + 12.5% premium. I'd love to find out the buyer. Ron
email (option): ronpier@talk21.com
American auctioneers Ron ? I don't know but what I've seen on documentaries reminds me more of livestock sales than the vehicle and antique auctions in the UK.
I imagine that the buyer, if it's an enthusiast, will locate you fairly quickly over the internet, once he finds out that you're the only chap with any idea where to find parts for them !
Ron,
Being American we really don't understand them either, we just listen for the numbers the same way a dog listens for their own name...... blah blah blah blah Sparky blah blah Sparky! 
Mark
email (option): wingco40@hotmail.com
Or blah, blah. blah, food, blah, blah, food!
Anybody know what the Velocette went for?
Rik, the best stuff went to Japan, then the remains sat for 5 years, before. It went to Indiana.
Cheers,
Lex
email (option): welbike@welbike.net
Hi Lex,
The Velocette went for $7500. I'm not so familiar with this model or the numbers sent to the War Department. What can you tell me about this model, and what are your thoughts on the final selling price? Was this a well loved and reliable DR motorbike? Thanks...
Mark
email (option): wingco40@hotmail.com
Lex
What bikes do you have?
If the Velocette is a geuine MAF, then it is one of only 947 built during 1941/42. The WO cancelled any further motorcycle orders with Veloce at that time. Just a quick glance at the pictures shows a few incorrect features. The previous model (MAC WD) were originally destined for France, but France fell before they got there. At nearly 15 BHP and a very light bike, they would have been a very desirable ride for any DR. The model MAF was ordered by the WO in a more military spec with panniers and pillion seat, a heavier frame and some economy measures. But I think still nice at 14.9 BHP. Ron
email (option): ronpier@talk21.com
Thanks much Ron.
Mark
email (option): wingco40@hotmail.com
Well Mark, Ron seems to have answered the question already, he has one, so he knows more about it then me, but have always fancied one, so maybe one day!
The bike in question seems to have been sprayed when assembled, certainly not restored, various mods can be seen, but engine and frame numbers only will show evidence of what it is.
$7500 doesn't seem to be very high though.
My interest lies with British Nortons and Matchlesses, and have some Royal Enfield prewar and wartime twostrokes, then some of the more exotic US stuff, and a couple of German (smallish) bikes to show the "other" side aswell!
Cheers,
Lex
email (option): welbike@welbike.net
New York Times article on the auction...fyi
J.D. Pooley for The New York Times
By TUDOR VAN HAMPTON
Published: December 14, 2012
AUBURN, Ind. — Don Coffman broke the news to his wife by telling her he had bought a German convertible.
Technically, it was not a lie: the vehicle was German, and it did have a folding top, but it was not the sporty ride she probably had in mind. Instead, it was a 1941 Volkswagen Kübelwagen Type 82, the first acquisition in a collection of war matériel begun 10 years ago by Mr. Coffman, a refrigeration service technician from Marengo, Ill.
A predecessor of sorts to the rustic Volkswagen Thing sold briefly in the United States in the 1970s, the Type 82 served as Nazi Germany’s version of the military jeep. Today, such war machines have become highly collectible.
“I bought it for $16,000,” said Mr. Coffman, 40, as he scouted for potential purchases here at a Dec. 8 auction of World War II-era vehicles from the collection of the National Military History Center. “If I went to sell it today, it would be about $60,000.”
The draw of military machines cuts across a surprisingly wide spectrum of auto enthusiasts.
“I’m geared differently,” explained Mr. Coffman, who owns German vehicles, equipment, weapons and other Axis memorabilia that he uses for battle re-enactments. “If it’s not camouflaged, I don’t want it.”
More than 350 spectators and registered bidders from 19 countries turned out in person, on the telephone and by the Internet for the no-reserve auction conducted at the museum by Auctions America. In addition to 82 World War II-era vehicles — still in their museum displays and many fitted with guns that had been made inoperable — the auction also included 100 lots of uniforms, mess kits, tools and other items.
“This is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity,” Mr. Coffman said.
Just before the sale started, auctioneers reminded bidders that they would need to pass a background check and possibly obtain special permits from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives before they would be allowed to remove some of the items.
Spirited bidding erupted. Richard D. Waistell, an engineer from Berkshire, England, came looking for good examples of British vehicles to add to his collection, which includes a 1919 steam-traction engine, a 1957 Land Rover ambulance and a 1954 Bedford fire engine.
“It’s a good way of investing money because these vehicles always go up in value,” said Mr. Waistell, 69. “But it’s not done for the money, it’s done for the enjoyment.”
After carefully inspecting several lots, Mr. Waistell made winning bids on six lots: a 1940 Ariel W/NG motorcycle, 1944 GMC CCKW air-compressor truck, 1944 Standard utility car, 1940 Loyd full-track carrier, 1940 Morris truck and 1942 Velocette MAF motorcycle.
“The idea is, my sons and I will restore them, get them up and running again and exhibit them in rallies in the U.K.,” Mr. Waistell said.
The sale offered enthusiasts vehicles ranging in price from a few thousand to hundreds of thousands of dollars. For example, Mr. Waistell picked up the Ariel motorcycle for $7,130, including a 15 percent buyer’s premium, while another bidder bought a rare Daimler-Benz DB10 12-ton halftrack prime mover for $230,000. The sale included trucks and tracked machinery bearing such marques as Citroën, Diamond T, Fiat, Hotchkiss, Humber, Indian, Opel, Steyr and Zundapp.
Previewing the auction lots, Frank Depoutot, 55, a mechanic in St. Louis, paused to marvel at a 1942 Harley-Davidson 42XA, a motorcycle that was reverse-engineered from German BMWs. It was built with a horizontally opposed 2-cylinder engine rather than Harley’s typical V-twin.
“I’ve never touched one,” he said. “I’d love to get my grubby little mechanic hands on it.”
Harley made only about 1,000 examples of the bike, which was available only to the military. This one sold for $46,000.
Eric Kauffmann, 45, who operates a private war museum near Strasbourg, France, came to bid on pieces for his collection of 150 war vehicles.
“The difficult ones to find are the German and the French — even in Europe,” he said.
Finding parts for such machines can be equally challenging, hobbyists said. Randy and Shane Harnish, a father-and-son team from Bluffton, Ind., restore vintage Army jeeps and fabricate replica guns for vintage military vehicles. They spent a good deal of time inspecting a 1944 White M16 halftrack to gauge its completeness.
Still equipped with two of its original four .50 caliber M2 Browning machine guns mounted on an M45 Maxson turret, the Meat Chopper, as the antiaircraft truck was commonly called, sold for $109,250; the price handily exceeded the pre-auction estimate. Similarly, a GMC DUKW, an amphibious machine equipped with both 6-wheel drive and a propeller, soared past its estimate, selling for $111,550.
“My biggest mistake 15 years ago was not buying everything I could get my hands on,” said Randy Harnish, 64. “A nice restored World War II Jeep 15 years ago was $7,000, and today that same one would bring $20,000.”
Some collectors said they use their vehicles for educational purposes — to help veterans open up.
“We’re into historical preservation,” said Fred N. Ropkey, a charter member of the Military Vehicle Preservation Association who owns a tank museum in Crawfordsville, Ind. Veterans, he explained, “need to have an outlet for the emotions that they were not able to release for so long.”
Though Axis equipment, flags and other items are important artifacts of World War II history, displaying swastikas and similar symbols can be touchy.
“We just can’t put them up,” said Mr. Ropkey, 83, speaking of some German flags in his collection. “The ones that we will put up are signed by the crews that captured them. Then, it becomes a thing of pride.”
Officials with the Auburn museum, which opened in 2003, said they planned to apply the event’s proceeds toward a $2.9 million debt left from the construction of a museum building that never opened.
“The other building was foreclosed, and it left us with a very large mortgage,” said Tamara Hantz, the operations manager of the military museum. “That is what inspired the auction.”
The military museum’s collection was originally bought by Dean Kruse in Messancy, Belgium, in 1999 and brought to Auburn. Mr. Kruse, the former classic-car auctioneer whose annual Labor Day sale was once billed as the largest collector-car auction in the world, established a foundation, donating the collection and building a 200,000 square-foot building to display it and other vintage vehicles.
While Mr. Kruse continues as a member of the foundation’s board of directors, he no longer operates an auction business. In 2010, the Indiana Auctioneer Commission stripped him of his auction license after complaints that he had not paid consignors for sales; at the time, Mr. Kruse countered that buyers had not paid him.
He subsequently sold his 235-acre Auburn auction park, located near the military museum, to RM Auctions, based in Canada. RM used the new location to establish its United States subsidiary, Auctions America.
This sale, which raised $2.9 million, will help make room for new exhibits for the museum. Plans include eventually expanding the facility to cover other American wars, Ms. Hantz said.
“We literally have storage rooms with thousands and thousands of pieces of memorabilia and artifacts,” she said, adding that more vehicles, including a Korean War personnel carrier, were waiting in the wings. “Unfortunately I can’t go get it because I have nowhere to put it.”
Still, the thought of letting go of so many vehicles was not easy, Ms. Hantz said. The museum gave winning bidders the option to keep vehicles here on loan or to donate them back to the facility. According to Ms. Hantz, the museum would continue to display at least 31 pieces in its collection.
“It’s kind of a bittersweet day today,” Ms. Hantz said at the auction. “I think the reality will hit when they start leaving out the back door.”
email (option): teladelujo@msn.com
hello - i ran some of those serial numbers down (the velocette and ariel) and i am not sure they fit into the war years.. any ways they were interesting bikes.
I have made contact with the guy who bought the Ariel and Velo. Mainly because he bought the Morris PU8/4 that I'm interested in. He's still in the States at the moment but only lives an hour away from me. So I'll be interested to see his purchases in due course. Ron
email (option): ronpier@talk21.com