I just got this from another site. Ron


Driver and Vehicle Licensing AgencyCorporate Affairs DirectorateD16DVLALongview RoadSwanseaSA6 7JLTelephoneVehicle Owners ClubsFax01792 384565TextphoneEmailclaire.rush@dvla.gsi.gov.ukWebsitewww.direct.gov.uk/motoringYour RefOur RefDate:7 November 2012Pre-1960 VehiclesI am writing to notify you of a change in legislation that may impact a number of yourmembers. From 18 November 2012, vehicles manufactured before 1 January 1960 willbecome exempt from the requirements to have a mandatory MoT test. I can confirm thatthese vehicles will still be required to be in a roadworthy condition when used on a public road. Keepers of pre-1960 vehicles will still be able to take a voluntary MoT test at allapproved testing stations if they wish to do so.This means that on or after 18 November 2012, keepers of vehicles who need to tax theirpre-1960 vehicle(s) will not need to produce a valid MOT pass certificate when applyingfor a tax disc. Any application to tax via the Post Office or Local Office will require a completed V112 (Declaration of exemption from MoT testing) where the customer declares that their vehicle is exempt. In addition, the DVLA electronic vehicle licensing system willenable customers with pre-1960 vehicles to tax without a MoT from 18 November 2012.This exemption will also apply to vehicles where a date of manufacture is not on the Driverand Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) system, but the date of registration is recorded asbeing on or before 7 January 1960. We also apply this policy to the qualification criteria forthe pre-1973 Vehicle Excise Duty exemption.I can confirm that the Agency will continue to allow pre-1960 vehicles to either transfer orretain their registration mark using the current cherished transfer scheme provided a voluntary MoT has been passed. This is to ensure that vehicles are still in existence and prevent potential fraudulent claims for attractive marks.
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Page 2 of 2Where keepers believe their current vehicle should be exempt due to the law change buttheir Vehicle Registration Certificate (V5C) does not reflect this they will need to write to the DVLA to request a change. The address to write to is DVLA, Swansea, SA99 1BA.In order to ensure the accuracy and integrity of the vehicle records held at the DVLA, it is important that evidence provided to amend or add information already held on our system is accurate and truly reflects the vehicle for which it is issued. Therefore it has been decided that for these specific cases, requests will only be considered where it has beenaccompanied with either an extract from the manufacturer/factory record or an extract fromthe appropriate ‘Glass’s Check Book’. Both these documents will have a direct link to the chassis number that should already have been accepted and recorded on the vehicle record as part of the initial registration process.I can confirm that for these specific cases, DVLA will not accept general dating certificates as evidence to amend or update the date of manufacture. Such certificates will however, continue to be accepted for other purposes such as V765 claims and requests for age related numbers for recently restored or recently imported vehicles.I trust this explains the situation.Yours sincerelySent unsigned via e-mailClaire RushCorporate Affairs Directorate

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Looks like I'll need something from the factory ledgers for my bike then...who holds these currently?....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Ian,

The VMCC and the BSA OC have copies. And by the way I have a full set as well but I can't give you a valid dating certificate

Regards,
Leon

email (option): leonhop3@planet.nl

Thanks Ron thats clear,I wonder if the DVLA system will crash on the 18th due to the demand, for the tax discs, Its good to know a test can still be taken, andrew.h.

email (option): warbikes@gmail.com

have i miss understood these details so i will have to go and get a MOT excemption form as my V5 will not surfice as evidence and where will i get one of these forms

i downloaded form V112 of the direct.gov site there is nothing on this form about age excemption on it if you tick yes on part 3 it says your vehicle is not excempt from MOT testing and you need an MOT certificate to tax it

V112 sounds like the form I used to tax my Morris Commercial gun tractor.

Cullompton town post office would never accept it so I had to go to a tiny village post office at Willand where I had no trouble.

The back of the form had a list of all the different reasons for exemption but I don't think you had to state which one you were using?

My worry with this system was that an automatic camera would snap my number plate and the Police computer wouldn't know I was exempt.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11@yahoo.co.uk

Has anyone spoken to their insurer to ask if they still require an MOT . John

Hi John

Wouldn't it be best not to?

Rob

email (option): robmiller11@yahoo.co.uk

To right Rob, dont want to give them a reason to bump up the cost

Here we go.... I encountered a number of problems with insurance back in the 1970s as it was suggested that with a C reg (1965) the bike was a hybrid/rebuild and was not what I claimed it was- an entirely standard ex-WD M20. This cost me time, money and patience and was totally absurd with "engineer's reports" etc being demanded but in the end I found an insurer that was sensible. Surely, the whole business of ledgers is pointless as all BSA M20s were constructed between 1936 and 1956. I know it is possible to construct a "new" machine from parts and get it registered but in essence having to prove the age of a bike of a type made between 1939 and 1945- a K or WM20 is just plain stupid.

Hi Nick...Regarding the MOT,you need to look in your logbook and more importantly on the DVLA website (you can do a search on your registration number) to see what information the DVLA have on record. My M20, unfortunately, is down as registered in 1968 but also has that as the date of manufacture. Other bikes have the later registration date but a correct date of manufacture.
It's the date of manufacture that is the important one in this case..
I don't think you would have a similar problem with an insurance company these days...Back then it was normal procedure just to issue any hybrid/bitza with a new registration number.(I had a 72 registered Tribsa) That doesn't happen any more and in my experience those assumptions are no longer made..Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

it says manufactured before the 1st january 1960 so the date registered doesnt matter obviosly the hard bit might be keeping the DVLA happy with the age of the bike is genuine and would just the frame surfice ie 1952 frame with all the lastest engine and fittings

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Page 2 of 2 Where keepers believe their current vehicle should be exempt due to the law change but their Vehicle Registration Certificate (V5C) does not reflect this they will need to write to the DVLA to request a change. The address to write to is DVLA, Swansea, SA99 1BA.

Looking at my V5's, you have the date of registration but also the important mention of "Declared Manufactured" (followed by the year - eg - 1942). All of my bikes were registered in the 80s and 90s, following a pre-inspection by an examiner from the DVLA and an authenticated dating letter from an authorised source.......

So, reading the DVLA advice above, I would take it that my V5's DO reflect the pre-60 exemption regarding actual age......

BUT, as mentioned previously, anyone with a post-60 registered machine that also has a similar post-60 date declared as the date of manufacture may encounter difficulty.........

email (option): jonny.rudge@verizon.net

Unless things have changed since my stint in motor insurance, UK insurers have never voided cover due to lack of an MOT certificate. They would in any case be bound as 'interested insurer' to deal with the third party claim under the Motor Insurer's Bureau scheme.

What they could and did do was reduce a total loss settlement on the basis that a vehicle without an MOT certificate was worth less than one that had the necessary paperwork.

The requirement for a Ministry of Transport test effectively no longer applies to a pre-1960 vehicle and is no more relevant than a steam boiler certificate for an IC engine or a British Horse Society qualification to ride a motor-Cycle.

The time to be careful would be at renewal as they could introduce a policy requirement for an annual engineer's inspection but bearing in mind that many European countries have no tests for motorcyles / and or old vehicles and insurance is still available, I'd imagine that unlikely.

You might well find that premiums start to go up if claims experience deteriorates. At the moment, the UK is seriously cheap for classic insurance. I pay €200 in Belgium for a 16H and a Commando (third party only) and would have to pay €500 per annum for TPF&T on the pair.

I renewed my insurance on Friday (all the bikes on one policy). No mention was made of the new MOT arrangements...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

email (option): robmiller11@yahoo.co.uk

Insurance companies will know the change in the law, and the vehicles will still need to be road worthy as before even with an MOT. I had an accident on my bike and the police went over it with a fine tooth comb and tried to do me for lots of things like no exhaust system on a bike after it had been ripped off going under a car. The fact I had an MOT meant nothing.
Every time this subject comes up everyone gets negative about it when we are being given something, like the no tax for pre 73 vehicles. I think some people here are panicking and scaremongering about nothing. Things will be exactly the same, you just wont need an MOT. If you want to carry on MOTing your bike you can do.

The sky isn't falling, don't panic

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

I repeat what I have said before and re-iterate what Rob has said. My morris Commercial has been MOT exempt for 20 years or so! Nothing ever changed with my insurance premium, other than the normal inflation increases. Thousands of people have these MOT exempt heavy goods vehicles from pre 1960 and the government have decided to bring all other pre 1960 vehicles in line. I'm just grateful. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

As Ron has just said there is not a problem with the new exemption, I have owned a heavy truck since 1989, It has always been exempt on its MOT,I have never had a problem, at any time, and dont belive we will with our bikes. Ten bikes (three in parts),two heavy trucks all now exempt of MOT fully comprhensive insurance three named drivers £385, a year, RESULT !!! andrew.h.

email (option): warbikes@gmail.com

do you have to take all your documents when going abroad if you do will no MOT cause a problem

I can't see other countries could justify giving someone grief for it.
Driving abroad is a temporary thing & im sure current vehicles that dont need a test including new cars arent breaking any rules.

Also ive been reading on other threads that some are still looking to get an MOT.
I think they might be wasting their time (unless for cherished number purposes or to satisfy a potential buyer) after all if for some reason your vehicle gets "checked over" by police or insurance company after an incident, the vehicle is being checked by someone other than the tester you would have used anyway.
Having or not having a current test wont & never has been taken into consideration, they even (& i know traffic police that have done it) occasionally revoke a current MOT if they think it wouldnt pass "in their opinion".
Most people i know in Classic bike circles dont get failures when MOTing anyway.
If you do often get failed at MOT's on vintage bikes & are not mechanically minded & want some kind of safety check then fine then by all means do but vintage bike MOTs are so basic the MOT has been a joke really.