http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2216335/Classic-motorbike-locked-away-1930-expected-sell-75k.html

Off topic but rather worthy, Isn't it?

Just the speedo would be worth a fortune!!

someone will strap a swagger stick on the front and ask twice as much for it and i would'nt want to own it the cost of security guards to guard it were ever you parked it

email (option): roger.beck@node6.com

A real 'time machine'..but also an example of how market values can become utterly unrelated to the physical value of a machine or it's capabilities as a motorcycle.
I have a friend with a '680' Brough who likes to ride it and one thing has become abundantly clear...it has all the limitations and weaknesses of a 1920's/early 30's design.
This stuff is for those who have have plenty of spare cash and want to collect something. However,if you want to ride up to the limits of a bike and ride it often it would be far better to buy something later, more durable, easier to maintain and with a prospect of obtaining spares..Alternatively if you relish the challenge of running an older machine for limited use a far cheaper one would serve just as well without being such a liability.
I believe motorcycles were made to be used primarily as a form of transport..not as a form of currency, so as a motorcyclist (not a collector or investor) I find this type of 'investment pricing' unimpressive and regretable.
Equally though it is inevitable when rarity, investment and collectibility are valued above more practical motorcycle related considerations...
....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

You can buy a brand new Brough Superior at a mere £250,000

http://www.bikeexif.com/brough-superior-2

http://brough-superior.com/ws/frontend/seite/SeiteCms.php?coId=124&coType=navigation1


So £75,000 for an original is a bargain

I do agree it's rich boys toys, but more fun than leaving it in the bank

Not quite on the same scale, but I bought my Manx because it was better than having money in the bank and at least I'll get some enjoyment out of it. Then if I ever sell it I'll get my money back, if I haven't blown it up and it's cost me a fortune on the way

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

I wouldn't mind a crack at it! and if it sells for as little as £75,000 I'll be astounded! It's a shame they get these prices nowadays, motorcyles should be ridden, not 'invested in'. It's terrible that after so long hidden away, someone with deep pockets will buy it and probably hide at away again.

There's a difference between a "motorcycle" and a "collectible", just like there's a difference between anything else and a collectible of the same type. One should not be confused for the other. I don't think anyone buys a collectible coin to use it to buy bananas at the local grocery, just as no one buys a collectible stamp to put it on a letter he is mailing. Collectibles are a way for the owner to gloat to his friends and, perhaps, to hedge against inflation - although prices often go against you. Unfortunately, I have neither the hubris to gloat nor the extra money to park, so I won't be bidding on this any time soon. All my bikes are riders or potential riders, even if they are much older than me.

As for this particular Brough, it looks so original that it may have some historic value. I hope the buyer will not be tempted to "restore" it.

email (option): jonny.rudge@verizon.net

I'm not sure I agree with you there John. Is the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight Lancaster a 'Collectable Aircraft'? Should be kept grounded in a hanger or should it be used so that people can see it? A motorcycle is a motorcycle is a motorcycle and it's not the same as an out of circulation, non legal tender coin or collectabble stamp. Old Stamps and coins have had their day, they have been used for their intended purpose and now have no other use in the modern world except to become 'collectables'. A motorcycle, no matter what its age or value is still capable of being a motorcycle and being used and enjoyed by the owner and all those who see it. If a motorcyle isn't used, it's just a dead lump of metal in a garage. However, I do agree with you that it would be a shame to do a full restoration on this one, but there are ways it can be got back on the road and still keep its originallity without sandblasting it and rechroming everything.

This comes down again to the fact bikes are different things to different people. I look at them as primarily a machine that has a function for which it should be used, so in my eyes anything that detracts from that is negative..
I don't think they all have equal value..but I base my 'values' on my own perception of how well they were designed,how well they function, aesthetics and some other factors, rarity being one.
The fact that some people regard them as a commodity to be used as a vehicle for investment or an item to be collected and not used as intended is, in my view, regretable, as this has led to prices that are beyond my reach, too many machines that stand unused and ultimately not enough activity to support spares suppliers.
None of which means I am right..except in my world.. and I have learned to expect a concensus around my own view is over optimistic..The fact is we all live in slightly different worlds when it comes to motorcycles...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

True Ian, its up to the owner and peoples views are different, there is no right or wrong and I appreciate that these things are rare and obviously have a 'commodity value'. I don't like it, but I can see why people would invest in motorcycles or just about anything else at the moment. It's a gamble, but all being well £75,000 on a Brough Superior will be a better investment than £75,000 in the bank! My view still comes down to this, what fun is there to be had in saying I've got a Brough Superior trapped in an air tight garage? Not as much fun as there is to be had in seeing how quick it will get from Dorset to London and back.

I wouldn't argue with those sentiments Bill..they are pretty much in alignment with my own..Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Sometimes it really hurts when you see how fast you can ride from Dorset to London and back Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Even back in the 1970s, when they were comparatively cheap, I couldn't have afforded even a side-valve Brough. All of my money went on motorcycles that were quick to the pub, and faster on the way back.

However, if anyone has a 'Brisfit' and wants to re-stage Lawrence's race, I'm up for it on the 16H

lincoln bill as you say investing in classic car/motorcycle is a gamble look what happened last time the price fell on classic car hundreds of thousands of pounds was paid for say an E types and other classic cars when the prices dropped lots of owners claimed on insurance saying their cars were stolen or they were burnt out in garage fires because they were insured at the full purchase value these vehicles have either been cut up and unmarked bit sold on or buried complete there was a certain upper crust person that went to jail over some classic ferraris as i understand were never found

email (option): roger.beck@node6.com

You are right Roger, all these "markets" are a gamble. When stocks and shares are down people turn to real objects like gold or classic vehicles, and of course these go up and down as well. Generally though, classic vehicles are going up in value as we've seen from our WD bikes and parts. It is a shame as £4000-£5000 for an old work horse side valve single is beyond what most people would want to pay for one. Whether you've bought the bike as a collectable or investment, £4000 or £75000 I'd have to ride it and have fun out of it.

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

You've only got to look at the prices achieved by even some very modest little motorcycles nowadays to see how things are going. Only the super rich can afford a Brough or a Vincent nowadays, so the knock on effect is that even the prices of Tiger Cubs and Bantams are slowly creaping up the scale. It could be looked on as a good thing in a way, as our bikes are getting more and more valuable, better than money in the bank and my pension will be worth about £15 a week as it stands!! but it's a shame that soon, young riders won't be able to get a foot on the ladder. Also, as we've all agreed, it's a gamble. I know a chap who bought a top end Jaguar Mk II in the early 1990s for just over £30,000, it's now worth about £16,000 if he's lucky, not a great investment. Probably best not to gamble, just get em out and ride em?

I bought a very complete, already done, 1944 M20.Paid $5000 for it this year. Fires up and runs good.
I am a military collector, or as I like to say, I try to save history for the future. My M20 is not driven, but is shown. My biggest fear is, once it has been crashed, it is gone, another part of British history is gone.
One of the few, Frank USMC RET

email (option): normandy@ec.rr.com

Hi Frank...I think if you owned the only NineteenCanteen Rudge factory TT bike that would be a stance that could be argued..However, I don't think the M20 is rare enough to be treated that way with hundreds, or possibly thousands, still in existence.. I have crashed my various M20s a few times over the years but have always managed to put them back together OK...Saying that I'd repeat...everyone to his own...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Recognizing that the transition is more a gray area than a point, I would say that something becomes purely a collectible when its value or price reaches a point where it would be too expensive to use it for its initially intended purpose. The ends of this spectrum are clear, even if the middle is not. No one would use a Maserati 300S for its intended purpose now. It was intended as a high speed race car but the last one that sold went for $6 million. Only a madman would use it for its intended purpose. Another example: in the 1960s the US treasury department withdrew from circulation all paper currency over $100. Bills of $500 and $1,000 have gained "value" over the years, where now each bill is worth several times its face value. They are still legal tender, but too "valuable" to be used for their intended purpose, i.e., as money.

On the other end of the spectrum, most older motorcycles like M20s and A10s can still be used for their intended purpose, since they are still reasonably priced. This Brough is probably in the gray area, where it is not totally crazy to use it as transportation but clearly it is heading to the stratosphere in its future. You wouldn't use a half-million dollar Croker to go to the store, even if you are a dyed-in-the-wool motorcyclist, and you wouldn't expect a seller of any machine to drop the price to a "reasonable" level just so that it can be used as it was originally intended. The market can be a cruel mistress.

email (option): jonny.rudge@verizon.net

I think this really is one of those 'no right or wrong' issues and as Ian has already said, everyone to their own. I agree that if I had a Brough, I'd probably try to use it as much as possible, but would be scared to death that I'd damage it or that it would get stolen from the car park whilst I was in the pub. However, this doesn't stop many intrepid soles from using such bikes for their intended purpose. Every year at Stanford Hall Autojumble it gladdens my heart to see at least one tatty looking SS100 or Vincent Black Shadow leaning up a tree and leaking oil all over the place. Some are kept in cotton wool and used as an investment, others are thrashed about and ridden and there are pros and cons for both approaches. It's all relative and there are still multi millionaires out there who race million pound cars or irreplaceable WW2 aircraft, whereas others think they should be preserved instead of potentially destroyed, it's horses for courses I suppose?

there is the goodwood revival meeting every year and other meeting where they race mllion pound race cars/motorcycles and wasnt there a chap who took his newly aquired vincent out for the first time and had it nicked or is this an urban myth there is another problem insurance a chap who get in my local cafe has been refused insurance on his vincent because he uses it for commuting

email (option): roger.beck@node6.com

That was true Roger..the chap who had the Vincent stolen was from Cornwall...It seems to me the market thrives primarily on the concept of 'rarity', investment and rising values and it is desirable that we all think we are 'in the game'...and I guess some people do get a warm glow when they think about thier 'assets'.
The Brough that is the topic of this posting is a genuine example of rarity..both in it's current condition and history and the number built in the first place. Similar examples may not even exist.
As such it would be expected to command more than an 'average' price and it could also be argued that the act of using it would destroy it's particular history ultimately...
Personally, I would argue that many of the motorcycles that are treated in a similar way are niether rare or valuable, don't have such a history and don't really warrant that status...Rather, they SHOULD still be used as intended and are not yet ready to be elevated to the status of 'sacred cow'.
A good example is pre unit Triumphs...You can pick up any Classic Bike magazine any time and buy a pre unit Triumph..or 10...Rare?, not really.
Value wise..A friend of mine recently bought a rigid Thunderbird for £6,000..or around the price of a not particularly exciting new Japanese bike or a 'bottom of the range' Harley...It's hardly the Crown Jewels is it?
I can see no reason at all why bikes of this type shouldn't be ridden to work every day..rain or shine.
For years I never thought at all about what my bikes were worth, how much they might be worth in the future and whether I should use them or not...That line of thinking is a relatively recent phenomenon and the result of the line usually taken by 'classic' bike magazines that we all own a 'rare and valuable classic' (and that word takes some defining as well). I just used and enjoyed them for what they were.
Worryingly, there was a short period in recent times when I began to think along the lines of monetary value etc. but I managed to eradicate that and return to motorcycles for motorcycles sake...and I'm happy again to take my 'uber rare and valuable classics' out for a bit of 'Off road action' at the weekends if the mood takes me...They're only motorbikes after all, they can always be rebuilt and at the end of the day I am a motorcyclist, not an investment guru..If I had the money to buy the Brough I'd buy it and use it..and maybe rebuild it some day..Just as George Brough intended..Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Hi John, I think you're right with your definition of collectable. But there are still people out there with lots of money who will use these very rare vehicles. I watched the Goodwood revival on the TV and saw the ultra rare race where the Maserati span off into the tyres and crumpled I'm sure the owner was gutted but has enough money to rebuild it and use it again.

As Ian says, he hasn't thought of the value of his old bikes until recently and that's exactly how I've been. My Commando cost me £450 in 1981 and it's been used and rebuilt many times since then, now it's worth 10 times what I paid for it which you can't fail to notice. But still a very usable bike and as Ian's pointed out, cheap compared to a modern bike, although their value is falling and mine's rising.

So I think, how usable a classic is, is relative to the amount of money you have. When the cost to repair or rebuild the vehicle is more than you are prepared to pay, it becomes a collectable investment or expensive ornament. I couldn't afford to dent a rare Maserati..!

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk