A friend of mine who I've met whilst attending 1940 events, is looking for a military bike, and will also be wanting to attend Normandy in 2014. The big problem is that he knows NOTHING about bikes or cars apart from where the fuel goes. Therefore he's looking for a good one that's going to be as reliable as possible.
I personally think an M20 would suite him, especially as we have Ian & Dave (amongst others) to help in times of need.
Now he's just seen this Norton for sale. http://www.cotswold-classics.co.uk/ from the photo's it looks OK, but I don't know anything about them, what are their weak points etc, what are spares like to get hold of?
Alternatively, does anyone know of a really good M20 that's up for sale?

Buy all means email me.

email (option): jimstott51@virginmedia.com

Without wanting to sound too flippant, if I had no mechanical experience, I'd probably be looking at a military bicycle first. A machine of this age could run for a short season without any attention but it will be a steep learning curve if longer term ownership is planned.

Norton spares are less easily found than the BSA equivalent and also more expensive. That said, the M20 is altogether a more sophisticated beast and can require more skilled attention if there are problems.

Although superficially similar, the Norton is a much more old-fashioned machine and might appeal more to someone looking for a 1930s bike who liked to feel everything working beneath them. If it's in good order when purchased, it should be fit for many miles of use but it will require fettling.

If my calculations (and the previous owners') are correct then this would be W33863. This machine appears on Rob van den Brink's website listing and he mentions that the engine number is a re-stamp. This may or may not concern a prospective purchaser but does detract a little from a machine described as the best available.

http://www.wdnorton.nl/Frame_and_Engine_number_page_16H.htm

Apart from the modern wiring materials, it does look from the photos (which are not as close-up as they could be) to be quite up together.

Another jonnycomelately dreamer! I.m sorry but it's not very realistic, not having a local british bike shop to take it to whenever it needs attention.

Thanks for your reply Rik. I've passed that on to my friend, it's then up to him to decide.

As for your reply Douglas, it's about as much use as a chocolate fire-guard, and also somewhat offensive.

email (option): jimstott51@virginmedia.com

Well, unsurprisingly I would go for an M20...They are easier for spares, there is more literature about describing thier specifications and technical details and far more M20 owners and dealers about who may be able to offer help or lend a hand when it is(inevitably) required. Also there are more bikes to choose from in the first place...
I have concluded that the 16H and the M20 are basically two different ways of achieving a similar result so which one to choose depends ultimately on which one you like best (in the absence of any technical knowledge)
As I say though, that aside I would choose the M20 for the practical reasons detailed above.
Personally I don't regard anyone as a 'Jonny come lately dreamer' if they are showing a genuine interest. Interest comes first, knowledge later in my experience and interest should be encouraged....Ian

Ian Wright

Well, unsurprisingly I would go for an M20..



Personally I don't regard anyone as a 'Jonny come lately dreamer' if they are showing a genuine interest. Interest comes first, knowledge later in my experience and interest should be encouraged....Ian

email (option): teladelujo@msn.com

Quite right, it doesn't matter what it is or what you do with it, as long as you enjoy it and keep the memory alive. I had a go on a replica Welbike the other day, what a laugh, brilliant!! Never mind the BSA's, Norton's and Matchless, and I think everyone should have one of these mad little buggers.

Hi Douglas,

I'm assuming that your 'Jonnycomelately dreamer' is refuring to me!!!!
I'm very offended!!!
I trust youself is a competent and have never ever needed someone's help.
How lucy you are!!!
May you never want.........!

These forum's are for help & advice for those in need !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mr Needy

Going back to your original question about the Norton, it has been proved that valve guides can be an issue! The only other fault is the gearbox mounts breaking but these can be quite easily repaired and the only other thing is more of a critism is that the gearchange has such a long travel it can be a little bit of "spoiler" My friend has the same gearbox on his Brough, and to my mind it does spoil the ride of the bike, having to lift your foot off the footpeg to change gear, it is especially noticeable on long runs (150 miles or so) you really do start to feel it!. I agree with Ian that the M20's seem a little bit better catered for and although slightly less powerful than the Norton, few people ever ride them hard enough to notice it. The Matchless is quite a nice bike too and out of all the bikes they seem to be cheapest when it comes to buying parts, and you can tune them a little bit and fit other parts from later bikes into the engines to improve reliability

email (option): davmax@ntlworld.com

Anyone buying a WD brit bike, should buy this reprint of this book:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Motorcyclists-Workshop-Radco-/271077177191?_trksid=p4340.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D11%26meid%3D2661558810061622820%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D1005%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D271067461455%26

Very good info for the newcomer.

Cheers,

Lex

email (option): welbike@welbike.net

I might regret mentioning this, but I have it digitally

It's quite a big file (8,57 Mb) so it might not be possible to send it by mail that easily, but it's on the BSA WDM20 DVD

Henk

email (option): ahum@quicknet.nl

Before buying my M20, I had very little experience of these things, I just knew that I wanted to get to Normandy for the 65th and on an M20, which was my motivation and passion. OK, so I'd rebuilt a Land Rover or two, a Triumph Spitfire and a ran a few sportbikes bikes, but I didn't do the skilled stuff and really only done nuts and bolts, I always sent the machines away and will still ask for help from people like Ian,Dave, my local bike shop, engineers and a guy in a shed I know. But get involved I say. You have to invest some time in mainting these things and inevitable money, there is a huge resource on this forum and the guys here, I'm always grateful for the help and amazed at the knowledge, although I've had my M20 for a few years now, I still need help. Time I have little of and a little spare cash I have some of, a work shop I do not have, so I have to be prepared to travel a bit to sort parts of the bike out, but I know its being looked after and safe to ride, some by me and some by the people I ask for help.

When I re-built the M20 I did everything I could, I got help where I didnt have the tools, things like replacing a piston to me was a big deal at the time, but now I could do it any time, spotting tell tale signs of wear, fueling, oil leaks and then doing some homework and having a go. Buying an old motorcycle, car, lorry, Tractor, MV etc, he will have to learn some stuff, you cant really just buy one, ride it and keep riding it, they need love, attention and a few quid. A bit like a girlfriend, which is fun most of the time, but can also be a proper pain ar@#, the reward is riding it sometimes :-)

You will at some point have to pull over and fix something on the side of the road, its great when you do it right and you know, meeting up with the guys you meet either through this forum, on the side of the road or at shows, events or cafes is just part of it, I've made several good friends. Saying that, I need some help re-building my gear box..

I can't really remember how long it is since I had real difficulty with anything on a BSA single and it is easily forgotten that once it was all unfamiliar. Recently working on the Harley Sportster, a bike I effectively knew nothing about, has refreshed that memory. ...It's very like the early days in as much as I know little but can't afford to take the bike to a dealer to have it repaired....especially something major.
So, it's the old 'crash course' in motorcycle education...talk to other owners, pick the brains of the mechanics at the Harley shop, get into the factory manual and parts lists as a bit of 'bedtime reading',read everything I can find about the history and developement of the model, particularly around the model year of my own bike, pick up the neccessary special tools etc. and go at each job slowly and methodically...
I am currently part way through doing some work to make the bike more what I want it to be and during that process have come across the inevitable repairs and refurbishments that are needed on various parts..Also I wanted to check things like the swinging arm bearings, wheel bearings, steering head bearings etc. etc. while the bike is off the road.
Already the fear of 'not knowing' is subsiding in direct relation to my increasing knowledge of the bike...and I've already found I know more than some other Sportster owners!.....
Regarding the question of which military bike to buy in my opinion the Enfield WDCO is an option well worth considering...Ian

not that i did a lot of runs out on my M20 this year due to the weather but i has been running loverly it only once broke down the knurled nut on top of the spark plug came off i say is know your bike so if it does cut out you maybe able to spot a fault alway do the simple thing first have you run out of petrol or got a blockage in the system check for spark and so on and always have some tools and spare plug plus other bits

email (option): roger.beck@node6.com

Thanks to all of you guys (except one!) for the informative and helpful posts. The information has been passed on, in fact "Mr Needy" is the friend that required the information to make his decision.

email (option): jimstott51@virginmedia.com

hi,that american wm20 has three hours to run,presently £2500.00,i reccon that would sell here for £4000.00 so may be worth considering,even if you have to ship it piecemeal,
i just brought a frame in from there for $50.00.
jesse tells me a standard flat rate box(12"x12"x6"deep)is $15.00 containing
upto 75 lbs in weight so prolly not as expensive as it would seem.
only a thought
cheers rick

email (option): richardholt@rocketmail.com

That flat rate box price and weight is within the USA only. International it costs roughly $45 and is limited to 20 pounds. I use them for shipping books almost weekly to some part of the world.

Check www.usps.com for rates everywhere.

email (option): dgordon4@austin.rr.com

I'd like to thank you all, bare one! for all the interesting and honest info.
The Norton is still for sale and i keep looking but have made no decisions.
I'm still looking so if anyone has a genuine bike looking for a genuine home then please get in touch.
Owned a T110 once, nice bike but a pig to start, that was back in the 70s!
The last tinkering i did was about 10 yrs ago on a Bantam!
Serviced it, removed some oil from the full forks!!!!!
MOT'd it.

Now i'd like to 'get back in to it' being a WW2 Re-enactor.

Regards,
Mr Needy