I intend to get as much as possible on my bike powder coated. Frame, tins etc but that still leaves me with many smaller parts that will need to be painted as I go along, probably in small batches. My question is, can anyone recommend a good book to explain the paint process to a toal novice?

I have been in engineering maintenance for 28 years but never needed the skill and I think it's high time I learned how.

Any ideas would be very helpful

Thanks

Darren

email (option): dwrudd@lineone.net

This is how was done originally

email (option): ahum@quicknet.nl

Behave yourself Henk! Stop leading the lad astray! A REME workshop or in the field for desert use where they lent them against the wall and sprayed the tyres and all is not how they left the factory.

I don't know about a book on the subject? Try a google search. But if you intend to start with small items. Then just go for it. You will need a compressor and spray gun if you don't already have access. You can get these quite cheap at Machine Mart or similar. With items in bare metal, practice spraying with primer first. It doesn't matter too much if you get runs or shit in it at this point as you can use 340 wet and dry paper to flat the items down. If the metal is pitted, you can loose this by putting on heavy coats of primer and then flat it back to get rid of the pitting. There is a special high build primer for this. It's one of the failings with powder coat, that you only get one coat, so pits and blemishes remain. Once you have your items in primer and a finish that you are happy with....then a few light coats of your chosen colour. If it goes wrong, just a light flat with your 340 and re-do it. I've been doing it for over 30 years and still have problems and mishaps. Especially with our mat or semi mat paint where you can't deal with blemishes like you can with shiny paint with 2000 W&D or cutting compound. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

PS. As a tip for using wet and dry paper. This is what I was taught as a younger man. Take a standard sheet of paper and cut or tear it into quarters. Now fold one quarter in half. Holding it in place in your palm by tucking one corner between thumb and bottom of first finger and with loads of water from a bucket, rub away in a circular motion ( really only works on larger panels). Your palm will make a good mould for curved surfaces, but you must keep your fingers straight and rigid otherwise you will get tram lines. Of course you can use a purpose made rubber block for large flat panels, but this doesn't apply much on bike parts. Good luck Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

I don't know of any manuals for painting, but a couple of tips would be, don't overload the paint, five light coats are better than one heavy runny one any day. Secondly, if you are painting outside, you will probably get nosey bugs land on the lovely shiney wet panels. Don't try to get them out whilst it's wet, you'll just make even more mess. Leave them until the paint is dry, then flat them out!! He says with a sheet of wet and dry in his hand and a James toolbox covered in bugs in the other!! Better still, make yourself a little sheeted off painting area in the corner of a shed

I have used powder coating as a first primer/base coat, then applied two-pack filler to fill all pits, and after that, apply RAL6014 either with a rattle can or a spray gun. Light sanding of the powder coat was enough to get a very good 'grip' for the filler.

email (option): viaconsu [at] planet [dot] nl

If you are going to do it yourself then do it properly.
Get the frame blasted back to bare metal,
Sandblasting is quite fine for frames,
Now do a full POR 15 treatment.
This paint is thinner than water, so it gets down into all the nooks & crannies that "breed rust" , is applied with a brush and almost impossible to remove once cured.
parts coated with it will never rust.
PoR 15 agents usually sell it with disposable brushes because you can not clean it off,
Then do your undercoat / rubbing coat .
This can be brushed or sprayed as you are going to wet & dry it smooth so brush marks and runs will be cut out.
Top coat of top class brushing enamel applied with a good quality ( expensive ) pure bristle paint brush.
I find that "sash cutters" are the best brushes to use as they get into all the fiddly little places.
Add "Penetrol" to the paint some where around 5% to 10%.
This will make the paint flow much better and help brush marks to flatten out.

Because of the complex shapes, spraying is not a good idea unless you are quite proficient.
If you decide to spray just the same use a "touch up" gun not a "cannon" as seen in the photo above.
I can get 4 coats onto a petrol tank with a 125cc touch up gun and they are a lot easier to use.

When you do the wet & dry rub add 2 to 3 drops of washing up detergent per litre of water no more.

Apart from the POR 15 do not mix either the type of paint or the brand as this can lead to chemical incompatibility and premature failure of the top coat.
This applies to both brushing & spraying.
I like brushing because it is a lot cleaner and takes a lot less preparation & clean up so you can do 1 part each night.
I drill a hole through the brush handle so I can hang it in a coffee jar with the bristles only in water.
This stops the paint on there drying for over a week so you simply give the brush a few quick flicks to remove the water followed by rub on some kitchen towel and you are ready to attack the next part, quick & easy.

email (option): wariron@tpg.com.au

Hi Darren, I'm not a sprayer but managed to spray everything on my bike with what I would say was a good finish. All sprayed outside hanging on the washing line. It has cost me a small fortune as I went for a 2 pack paint which was very expensive. I also mixed my own colour using green and brown paints as the local spray shop couldn't get it right.

So I would say the paint is the main thing. If I was doing it again I would try the paint from Jeeparts which most people here use, and is a lot cheaper and more versatile than 2 pack.

I also used a high build primer which with hindsight wasn't a good idea as when I bolt parts together, the paint cracks like an eggshell and puckers up as the primer crushes. I have spoken to a mate that does a lot of spraying and he thinks an etching primer laid thinly would be better.

I did tend to be a bit heavy handed with the paint and put it on thickly, so thinner coats is the way to go. Keep the gun moving from side to side releasing the trigger at the end of each sweep. Maybe there's something on youtube you can watch.


Here's a link to a post showing my tank

http://pub37.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=3155626639&frmid=16&msgid=1217755&cmd=show

Good luck with it, and have fun

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

what do i need to do just to change the colour it has a good paint job at the moment just flatten it down and spray i think it is sprayed in celluloes at the moment

email (option): roger.beck@node6.com

I've done this a few times and you've got to be carefull if you don't know for sure what the old paint is. Give it a good rub down with fine paper and make sure it's clean, you can't take too much time doing this, it will pay dividends later. Then I usually spray over with some sort of an isolator coat first. You can get specialist isolator paints, but often just a dust over with a good quality primer will do the job.

That is all food for thought indeed,

I do have a small compressor and so I can easily set up for a spray gun.

The RAL paint or two pack etc. does it need a top coat to 'seal' the paint or will it be tough enough a finish when dry?

I have seen paints advertised with a matt finish top coat, I always assumed that this was to make it hard wearing.

Darren

If anyone can tip me about top coats, then I am going to have a go and will post results ( good or bad ) to hopefully share my experiences to stop others making the same ( inevitable ) mistakes.

email (option): dwrudd@lineone.net

did they (who are they} bring in the regulations re not selling celluloes paint to the public or not using celluloes paint any more in the trade that is here in the UK

email (option): roger.beck@node6.com

Hi Darren..If you are looking at spray guns go for a 'gravity' gun (with the paint container above the nozzle)and pick one with a 1/2 litre capacity pot max. The advantage of this type is that you can use small quantities of paint for smaller jobs..Talk to the gun supplier about your compressors capacity and the types of paints/primers etc. you are planning to use and you should get some recommendations on suitable nozzle sizes for the gun.
Also don't go for the cheapest...a good quality gun DOES perform better and makes the whole job easier. I started with a cheap gun and when I changed to a better one it was a revelation..and I was immediately able to achieve better and more consistent results. Fit an in line paintshop filter if you don't have one to take moisture out of the compressed air..
Personally I find 'synthetic' paints very easy to use and quite forgiving for the novice..I mix these 50/50 with the appropriate thinners and run my gun on about 50 PSI...They can also be brush painted which is handy for smaller parts and 'touching in' the inevitable marks made during assembly..
Go for an eggshell type finish..full matt paints aren't very water proof I have found. In fact if I wanted a full matt finish I would spray the parts gloss first or, as I do anyway, get them powder coated as a good base coat.
If you do that flat down the coating with some roughish wet and dry to give a good key for the following sprayed coats....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Thank you Ian. Very informative. I shall certainly take your advice.
Is the matt paint really that fragile?
If so, isn't there a matt clear topcoat that will give durability or is everyone's bike full of scuffs on close inspection

I can easily fit a moisture trap as I sell them at work as an ancillary product. Also the hose etc. so I will look at spray guns as you suggest

Watch this space
Darren

email (option): dwrudd@lineone.net

Yes you can use a matt or satin clear lacquer to give the finish you want and some extra protection....I haven't done that myself yet but am planning to as an experiment. Lee Davey did that on his recent M20 rebuild and got good results..In fact it was his bike that made me think I'd give it a try.....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Don't forget to put a water trap (remover?) in the line between compressor and paint gun; DAMHIK

email (option): viaconsu [at] planet [dot] nl

Thank you Everyone,
Great help as usual,
Hans, I will certainly put a water trap in place, I have one in stock so thats sorted.

Darren

email (option): dwrudd@lineone.net

I don't see much comment on power coating! I used to get a lot of stuff powder coated, but over the years have less and less powder coated. Some of the drawbacks are too thick, difficult to strip, limited colour choice. Lately I only have stands and carriers power coated.

email (option): pvlietstra@gmail.com