I like to know in witch divisions from the Brittish army thay have used
harley's WLC models? Can someone help me with info?
Thanks

Bram

email (option): Bram@ockhuizen.com

I know the RAF used Harleys, I will have to trawl my photo collection to see what I can find......

email (option): stinkypete80@hotmail.com

I think you will find that non front line units used them as the foot clutch/hand change (yes, I know it has a hand clutch too!) was a little bit alien to most British soldiers, I think a lot of them ended up with Polish units and Canadians.

email (option): davmax@ntlworld.com

Probably the 2nd Battalion 'The Loamshire Regiment' - somewhere in Europe .

They really didn't fit into the British scheme of things but the Canadians were compelled by contractural obligation.

I'd suggest a thorough reading of 'The Winged Wheel Patch' and 'Motorcycles in Canadian Service' but my guess would be rear echelon provost units.

They also gave the Russians the Harley WLA as I presume they didn't care if they crashed them or not
I do know that as soon as the war ended the British army couldn't wait to get rid of the Harleys and Indians, mainly for the same reason, that they were alien to British troops and also I presume to rationalise the spares situation

email (option): davmax@ntlworld.com

Dave, It's my understanding that the hand clutch can only be used for initial pull away once you have used the foot pedal to disengage the clutch. It can't be used for subsequent gear changes once on the move. Probably quite useful at busy traffic light junctions and so on. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Ron, it was just another cable routed under the foot clutch that ran from the handlebars and utilised the second hole on the clutch actuating arm, as with most Harley hand change clutches it didn't really have enough travel on it as the clutch was really designed for the foot operation which moved the cable more. Combine this with the fact that the clutch basket would move out slightly when it was operated and I guess that it would be quite draggy. It was basically the same clutch as on the "shovel head" which was the same in that it was really only designed for foot operation and gave trouble unless you fitted an aftermarket retainer, or long bearing rollers or a "mousetrap" ( which increased the cables movement ) all these were designed to lessen it moving outwards and reducing the clearance between the plates.

email (option): davmax@ntlworld.com

Yes I had one 6 years ago and the hand clutch was very nice!
I have bought a other one bud like to know more in witch divisions
They where used and how to paint numbers etc. on it!
I didn't know the book is it reguler for sale?
Thanks

Bram

email (option): Bram@ockhuizen.com

I have not had time to search all my photos but found a couple of South African ones in the Middle East.....





Hope they are of intrest....

email (option): stinkypete80@hotmail.com

I suspect those South African bikes are the 1200cc model U's.

Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Nope, I think they are both WLA's, the WLC had the same front brake as the big twins with the rockers mounted on the outside of the fork unlike the WLA's which had theirs on the inside, The front brake cable joins the brake plate from the front on a WLC and it joins it from the rear on a WLA, the WLC's also had tommy bars built into their spindles, the WLA's didn't. Other differences include different rear lights, different marker light on the front mudguard. WLC's sometimes had a tool box on the mudguard, they mainly had rear saddles in various different designs and they had a front mudguard stay/stand and usually a reinforced rear stand, they didn't usually have the blackout lamp at the side of the headlamp, nor the deep water fording tube for the breather.
What is interesting the top photo has the 1940/41 longer forks fitted, they changed them back after 1941. The bottom one looks to also have a WLC front mudguard stay/stand fitted.

email (option): davmax@ntlworld.com

You're the Harley expert Dave. Not me for sure. It's just that the bottom bike seems to have 16" wheels and balloon tyres. Did they do that on 750's?
Anyway I'm just off to Goodwood revival for five days. So have to catch up next week. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

There was a contract for South African WLAs with 16" wheels and sand tyres, there are 2 in Holland.

Here a WLC topic (in Dutch) on the Keep Them Rusting site:

http://forum.ktr.nl/index.php/topic,1794.0.html

And one on South African H-D's:

http://forum.ktr.nl/index.php/topic,2245.0.html

Then Johan's excellent site:

http://www.theliberator.be/

But looking at the front number plate of the bottom one, it's 100% South African.

Cheers,

Lex

email (option): welbike@welbike.net

In the back of a 1947 Motorcycle magazine there is an advert from 'Claude Rye' in London. They seemed to have a number of Ex W.D motorcycle and combinations for sale. Included at the bottom of the add is 'Over one Hundred 750cc Harleys' and a 'huge stock of Harley spares'.
The general theme of many of the ads in this magazine is how new motorcycles are not yet available. It seems unlikely therefore that these Harleys were Imported for the same reason. This may show that at least one hundred or so Harleys were used by the UK military?
Paul

A friend of mine went to a scrapyard in Birkenhead in the late 1960's, he said there was a small mountain of Harleys, he asked how much they were as he wanted to try one, they were £3.00 each! He didn't buy one as the one he wanted was at the top of the pile as it had less damage on it but the crane driver was on his lunch, my mate said he'd call back the next day, but was offered an Ariel that evening from one of his mates, so he never bought one. Where they came from at such a late date in that kind of quantity -who knows?

email (option): davmax@ntlworld.com

Indeed there must be a lot of them in the UK see the pictures, Paulco do you have a copy of the magazine for me?

regards,

Bram

email (option): bram@ockhuizen.com

There probably were a lot around after the war...However, it is rare for a Harley or (Indian) from that period to come up for sale in the UK as a 'barn find' or similar..and they aren't very common even as runners.
I would imagine that what looked like a good buy at the surplus outlets wasn't quite so good when it was considered no official spares dealership existed...Far easier to change back to a British machine as a hack.
My guess is that during the lengthy period when they weren't really worth anything the majority were scrapped...Ian

Fred Warrs were going back then, but I suppose not every one would have used them. my only explanation is that they came from RAF Burtonwood which wasn't too far away. RAF Burtonwood was also an American airbase and also a big warehouse facility (absolutely massive) it had it's own little town in it. I remember going there as a kid when they had an air show and vintage vehicle rally back in the early 1970's I remember as late as this that there were piles of jeeps lying around everywhere

email (option): davmax@ntlworld.com

Hello Bram I will scan it and try to post it on the forum later.
Paul

OK Paulco, thanks

Dave and Ian do you mean those lots of WLC ??

email (option): bram@ockhuizen.com

definately WL's the model U has a straight kickstand not curved, primary cover is bigger and longer the rear frame tubes on the Wl are more bowed the frame is a duplex on the U and single down tube on the WL the battery box is under the seat and on a U it is he oil tank.

Here Is the page I was talking about, some nice Nortons to be had too:

The hand clutch can only be used for initial pull away (which IS very useful in traffic!) as the hand gear change is also on the left side.....so both operations cannot be carried out at once.......I guess this is obvious?

I see the ad for the Big 4's says..'with sidecar wheel drive'..so maybe they weren't ALL cut off...Ian

No, they weren't the frame from Devon wasn't cut, and a frame I have from Turkey wasn't! and a lot of others weren't but also have 2 complete sets of cut up frames now, one day a V-twin B4 (B8??) will be made from the remains! Cheap V-twin JAP or Matchless engine wanted



Cheers,

Lex

email (option): welbike@welbike.net

The Harley front brake was on the left hand handlebar and the clutch went on the right hand side, so it is possible to ride it using the hand clutch. If you look at factory photos you can see the right hand lever's cable going down to the clutch arm. I know having the brake and clutch side on opposite sides than normal can cause a bit of confusion especially in an emergency situation, but it seems that both Harley and Indian didn't mind moving them over for different applications.... either way riding one can be a terrifying experience as it is instinctive to pull the clutch in (front brake) and it isn't a natural instinct to have to manually close the throttle. I've had the (mis)pleasure to teach a couple of guys to ride them, which means taking the bull by the horns to show how it should be done which is pretty scary if you don't ride one every day, but after about 10 minutes you get the hang of it again, but the first 10 minutes are pretty scary especially if it isn't your bike and the clutch bites in a different place! The worst part of riding them is turning left from a standstill as you have to learn to swing in the opposite direction so you don't have to put your left foot down whilst operating the clutch.

email (option): davmax@ntlworld.com

All WLC's up to 1945 also had a left hand throttle, so that's very Indian like!!

And I can deal with it anytime.

Cheers,

Lex

email (option): welbike@welbike.net

Still have no idee where they were used besides the RAF see picture, were they also used as dispatch bike somewhere??

Thanks Paulco for the copy!!

email (option): bram@ockhuizen.com