Not too sure if this has been posted before...but shure it's worth another look............

Hi Jimmy..Nice picture..Interesting that the first two bikes appear to have chrome headlamp rims/civvy headlamps. I've always wanted one of those short DR coats but have never found a good one ..Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Me too

I like that type of coat, but no so many fat dr's about in those days

:-D

email (option): Jonnyob1@googlemail.com

hiya jimmy...i dont suppose youve got one of the coats hiding away with everything else ???

how come the bikes are dublin registered but carrying english c numbers ?

you around end of july when i get home ?

email (option): chris.astinbarker@btinternet.com

email (option): ahum@quicknet.nl

Hi Jimmy,

We must have seen this one before as I have it on my list of bikes to get the details on.
This is real "anorak" stuff, but I went to the Pearse St. Library last week and spent 6 hours going through the registration ledgers for the vehicles registered from 1939 to 1947. I think I'm right in saying that all motor vehicles supplied to the Irish Army/Dept. of Defence are registered in Dublin.
I had to hand write down all the numbers as you are not allowed to photo copy the ledgers.
I think I went through about 6,000 motor vehicles.
I specifically went for the records of every WD.BSA WM20 that was regestered between those years.
And OOH what a mess.
The earlier bikes were all listed by engine/frame numbers up to about 1943 but after that the bikes were issued with a reg number but there are no details of engine or frame.
Getting back to the photo, the first bike, which I think is ZD 4545 or could be 4645 and looks like a late contract model unfortunately was one of the bikes with no details listed.
I also had a look for the details of your own bike and they are also not listed.
I hope over the next few weeks to be able to compile a list of engine/frame numbers that I can refer to if anybody wants info on Irish army bikes.
Its amazing to look through the ledgers and pick out the different vehicles that were around at the time. The army had 500 Royal Enfields, unfortunately they seem to disappear and there are no details of them having been sold into the civilian market after the war as was done with the WM20's.
I'll have to do more digging in the Military archive at Cathal Bruagh barracks someday. Mick W.

email (option): mickwalsh57@gmail.com

Hi Mick

Long time no hear

If I get you my bikes details - would you be able to check next time you are there ?

Mine is a late contract with matching numbers

107738

My friends bike is 107799, might even have rolled off the line same day at BSA

Would love to know a bit more if possible

Not surprised the Enfields didn't survive - Irish army would bury it in a hole in the ground or cut it up rather than sell it

Best regards

Job

email (option): Jonnyob1@googlemail.com

Like Ian

I'd like a short coat but a "biggish" one if possible

If anyone has one I would be interested in buying one

Best regards

Job

email (option): Jonnyob1@googlemail.com

Hi John,

I'll have a look through the list tonight for those numbers. I hope they are not in the batches where there are no engine/frame numbers listed.
There must have been some very lazy people working in the "Corpo" in those days, ooh what a suprise!
The military archive will be next ,but I have to make an appointment to view there files and it only opens on certain days.
Mick

email (option): mickwalsh57@gmail.com

thank mick so the royal enfields are still in the ordnance depot and still crated well we came always dream

email (option): roger.beck@node6.com

I saw these pictures a while back, it said it was Irish army 1940. The bike is a lovely BSA OHV trials bike and the last bike is a twin, so not sure if this is still Irish army?

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

Mick, it's good to know that someone is putting serious hours into the Irish archives. Having spent two days in the VMCC last month, I know how tiring it is (but the 'Eureka !' moments make up for it )

It is jolly decent of them to have left the British census number on. If the number is C5548482 then the leading machine should be WM20 107782 from S5209 which were detailed for delivery at 2000 per month effective July 1944.

It would seem likely that these were post-war deliveries to Ireland, having first sat in store at Chilwell until the war in the Far East was over. I'd be surprised if they were delivered to Dublin earlier than 1946.

Is there any more detail on those Enfields - model or better still frame numbers ? One possibility might be that they were transferred to other Government departments but then it would be surprising if none had surfaced. If you have an approximate date then Jan should be able to find them in the records...Just a thought, they weren't push-bikes were they ?

Hi Rik,

Nice to here from you again. It was the post about the Norwegian BSA WM20 that was discussed recently that got me motivated again.
I'll check my notes tonight and see if WM20 107782 is listed.
There are engine/frame numbers for the Royal Enfields but I didn't have time to list them and as far as I remember there were no model types listed i.e WD/C or CO. I have to reply to Jan with whatever info I have, but I'll need to do another visit I think.

As far as I know the Irish army used BSA bicycles,
I put in a bid years ago for a shed full of bicycles and spares but was unsuccessful and I dont know where they went.
Mick

email (option): mickwalsh57@gmail.com

Hi mick

Same contract as mine & eugenes bikes - could even be in the photo

Will never know now :-(

Job

email (option): Jonnyob1@googlemail.com

Does anyone know what the last bike in the series of photos is?..There were few parallel twins pre war and it isn't a Speed Twin..The forks and wide mudguards don't look familiar either..The Val page twin ?..or is it a 'twin port' single?...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

If you look carefully, there is a small website reference on the bottom of the m20 photo

I ave just looked through the site and found many interesting photos, m20's trw's t100 triumphs

One photo is a convoy riding through o'connel street in Dublin, it's Pre 63 as nelsons column is still standing - it was blown up unfortunately soon before I entered the world

For your info, the Curragh camp outside Dublin was a major Irish army garrison, previously a British army headquarters as far as I know

Also a few amusing shots of a Churchill tank which fell off a trailer - can you imagine the paperwork that had to be completed :-D

Job

Ps thanks for the photo jimmy, hope all is well with you :-)

email (option): Jonnyob1@googlemail.com

Hi John..
All well on the home front.......
You are right about the web site..this is where you will find the photographs........

http://www.curragh.info/gallery.htm

Thanks too to Mick for all the hard work trawling the archives..............

And Chris...for sure...give me a shout when you get back home........

Glad everybody enjoyed the picture.........

I's an interesting subject.

My bike is also from the same S5209 contract - frame 110717, C5551417 - and I believe it was brought back from Ireland within the last few years. The keycard says that it was returned to BAOR in 1959 - I wonder if my bike could be one of those in the Curragh pics, or wouldn't the BAOR date fit? I'll have a look at the photo gallery when I get 5 mins.

email (option): lee@twowheelstested.co.uk

Hi Mick....
This is my BSA bicycle...........
Not the correct pedals but the rest is...I think!!!!

Having looked at the website image, I can see that the census number of the leading M20 is actually C5548487 which would make the frame WM20 107787. Is it out there anywhere ?

Hi Jimmy,

Thats a great folding bike, always wanted one of them The bicycles the Irish Army had were the roadster type with a clip for the Lee Enfield 303 rifle.

email (option): mickwalsh57@gmail.com

BSA produced over 60,000 folding bikes in WW2 so there must still be plenty about..Do any of the WW1 versions still exist?...or the Italian version made by Bianchi?....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Hi Lee,

I know that you e-mailed me before about your WM20 number and I did not have anything on it. I had a look last week, but there are no WM20 engine/frame numbers in the ( Dublin )Southern Ireland ledgers up to 1946 that are higher than the WM20 108xxx's.
If you say that your bike went to the BAOR in 1959 that means it would never have been in the Irish army but may have been in Northern Ireland with the British army.
Mick

email (option): mickwalsh57@gmail.com

Hi mick

If you do get back to this office, maybe you could look out for mine

Next time I'm over I would like to visit there

Interesting that the bikes were still in British army spec, I believe the photo is post war

I wonder when the decision to paint over this was given ?

Still traces of factory paint on mine

Job

email (option): Jonnyob1@googlemail.com

email (option): lee@twowheelstested.co.uk

Hi Lee,

I think Rik is the man that can answer that question for you as I don't have information on the key cards as they are to do with British army vehicles.
But that is a nice piece of history to have with your bike. I can't get photocopys of the original ledgers for the Irish army vehicles.
Mick

email (option): mickwalsh57@gmail.com