Here's a nice picture that John Tinley sent me of G3's arriving at Southampton.
These ones have the C numbers applied to front and rear number plates. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

It is a nice photo Ron. Were they off to join the BEF ?

Is that a contract plate visible on the left hand bike ?

I have a painting (print)of 16H's about to embark for the continent, presumably with the BEF. I will try to scan it sometime soon.

email (option): stinkypete80@hotmail.com

the 2 C numbers are cosecutive numbers do you think the ones in front are also consecutive numbers

Roger by blowing the picture up I can see that the one at the front left is 66394. the one in the middle is 66458. Can't see the others. But obviously all from the same batch. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Here are the same bike on route to Southampton.

John says:-


Here are the same bikes on the way to the port. You can see that the C number is painted on the front number plate but not on the petrol tank. Also the exhaust pipes look to be chromed. (I assume they were using up old civilian stock).

The photos are discribed as being of the 2nd BEF which I understand was a second army sent out after Dunkirk to try to hold the Germans from taking the rest of France? Others will know this better than me.

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Wonderful pictures John and Ron!

Around that period (May 1940) it was typical RASC practice to put the census number on the front and rear numberplates. The typical black rectangle on the left hand side of the petroltank was only used by the RAOC.

Here's another ex BEF Matchless, with new owner:



Jan

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

what fantastic photos. I wonder whether mine is amongst them?

Even though these boys are off to war, there is something very innocent and relaxed in their eyes. I wonder how many made it through. anyway, thats a bit morbid, but the bikes look great. thanks for posting Ron

email (option): andrew.honychurch@btinternet.com

It does indeed seem likely that these are troops from the '2nd BEF' who were sent into Cherbourg after the Dunkirk evacuation.

The good news is that apart from some fairly limited contact, most of them did re-embark, with their transport and return to the UK.

These would be principally troops of 52nd Division. There is a photo showing returning KOSBs on page 135 of Gavin Birch's book.

Looking at the images more closely, I can see a coloured Field Service cap at the docks and my initial thoughts were the brown and navy of RAMC but reds are difficult to differentiate from khaki on these b/w photos and the other picture seems to show quite clearly a rider with a Royal Artillery cap badge.

This would suggest one of the three Field Regts RA that went with 52 Div or the Div A/tk regt.

The coloured stripes of a movement / embarkation code are visible on the rear of one machine and as Ron has pointed out, there is a '1932' visible on the fuel tanks which is likely to be the numeric display of this number. I am making enquiries as there is currently no published reference of these codes but there may well be in the future.

They are really nice pictures showing how luggage was carried on pre-pannier bikes.

Does the gas detector paint extend half way down the headlamp mask ?

I wonder what the chances are of a rider in a MkII battle bowler with a rifle sling around him not breaking his neck if he takes a tumble ?

Another great BEF picture from John with his comments below.


Hi Ron,

It was interesting to read what our friends on the group had to say about the photos I sent to you yesterday.

I can now reveal that I believe they were from the 241st and 243rd R.E's ( I believe they were bridging units) and the photos were taken on what was then the mainroad from Winchester to Southampton at a place called Otterbourne. I can tell you this because I tracked down the location from the attached photo which is from the same series. As you will see the photos were taken outside the Elderfield Hotel , which was in Otterbourne. Although there are no motorcycles in this photo I am sure you will agree it is a great photo. Have a look at the outside broadcast unit from the BBC on the roof of the bus.

Several yeas ago I went with Peter Brown and Mike Wilkins and tracked down the exact spot this photo was taken. With Google street view you can now look at it from the comfort of an armchair. Alas, the location has changed quite a lot.

Hope you enjoy the photo.

Cheers,

John

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Ron Pier

... Alas, the location has changed quite a lot.

Hope you enjoy the photo.

Cheers,

John

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Wonder if you could muster thirty G3/G3Ls to recreate that scene.

email (option): unpob@yahoo.com

I couldn't get the print out of it's mount, so I have done two scans, one of which shows the top of the print and the sacond showing the bottom. It is titled 'The 52nd Lowland AT cherbourg 1940.





I'm afraid it is a bit blurred at one end as it was angled up on the copier. The mounting was much too large to get on the platen.

email (option): stinkypete80@hotmail.com

A bit of a clanger on that Cherbourg painting as the artist has fitted post-1941 panniers and a blackout rear lamp to the bike.

The final photo of the convoy approaching Southampton is intriguing.

The mobilisation code '1932' related to No.3 Bridge Company RASC. They were scheduled to join the main BEF but then disappear from the embarkation schedules. The identification is backed up by the pontoon-carrying Albion 6x4 lorries with RASC numbers and this explains also the presence of motorcycles supplied on RASC contracts.

Their war diary is catalogued in the NA and lists them as Home Forces for January - December 1940 but this is something that also occurred with the units that went to Boulogne - they were back before anyone realised it.

They may well have travelled in convoy with two Royal Engineers units but these images seem to show RASC personnel.

Someone's going to have to have a look at the war diary !

Rik, very interesting information. Regards John

email (option): tinley@btinternet.com

A lot of shipping must have been used to transport the BEF to France and it was after the declaration of war. Did the Germans attack this shipping?...I don't recall ever having read anything on that...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Ian according to Wikipedia here. The BEF were in place before hostilities really got under way. Obviously the retreat was heavily bombarded. Ron

The British Expeditionary Force was started in 1938 in readiness for a perceived threat of war after Germany annexed Austria in March 1938 and the claims on the Sudetenland which led to the invasion of Czechoslovakia in March 1939. After the French and British had promised to defend Poland the German invasion began and war was declared on 3 September 1939.
The BEF was sent to France in September 1939 and deployed mainly along the Belgian—French border during the so called Phoney War leading up to May 1940. The BEF did not commence hostilities until the invasion of France on 10 May 1940. After the commencement of battle they were driven back through France forcing their eventual evacuation from several ports along the French northern coastline in Operations Dynamo, Ariel and Cycle. The most notable evacuation was from the Dunkirk region and from this the phrase Dunkirk Spirit was coined.

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Dunkirk always gets the mentions in the press but Britain's largest ever maritime loss was the sinking of RMS Lancastria after it had rescued soldiers and civilians from St Nazaire on 17th June 1940. No one knows how many people were on board but it is thought to have been between 4,000 and 9,000. Even at the lower figure the loss was greater than the Titanic and Lusitania put together. Little is known about it because the British Government were so concerned that they issued a D-Notice suppressing any mentions in the press.

email (option): tinley@btinternet.com

Hi Ron..Previous postings indicate these were part of the '2nd' BEF and the photos date from around May 1940, with the move to France not undertaken until after Dunkirk..(See Riks post). The Germans commenced attacks on shipping immediately upon the outbreak of war.
I had never heard of the 2nd BEF and was completely unaware that any further troops were deployed to France. I would imagine they must have been targets for the German Navy and more particularly Luftwaffe...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

The second BEF included 52nd (Lowland) Division and Canadian troops. Accounts of their transport between 7th and 12th June 1940 make no mention of air attack. Cherbourg was still fairly well south of the German positions.

The first five regular divisions of the BEF were incidentally transported to France during the latter part of 1939 without a single loss of life.

Ah yes of course. I wasn't considering the BEF second wave. But as Rik points out they seemed to have made it across without being targeted. The Germans were to busy else where. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

British Pathé have revised their website. unfortunately, some frames have become mixed up.

They have a film captioned as the return of the NWEF from Norway but on the end are this RE unit heading for France along with other 52nd Div units?

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/stills/n-w-e-f-return-1940

Another view of the same convoy, also showing the '1932' Movement Serial on the Matchlesses.