im looking at getting a new 6v battery, one which fits in the old puw27e case, there is a dry cell one a few people are using, anyone have a number and source for them?

Hi Jonb,

Usually cells from 4.5 to 7AH (Amp-Hour) will do.
In the link below, you can find in the middle of the page,
A chart named “Lead Acid batteries” with Voltage, AH rates, weights and dimensions.

http://www.amicell.co.il/batteries/rechargeable-batteries/lead-acid-batteries/

The batteries can be obtained from electronics dealers,
and usually anyone who deals with UPS systems.
(Emergency power backup for PCs/ Servers) or alarm systems.

email (option): noam10@gmail.com

Hi Jon..If you are putting the sidecar on just use a 6 volt VW battery in the boot!...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

I've got 'CYCLON' 5 amp hour batteries in all my bikes.
But they also make an 8 amp battery or you can fit two 5's in series to got 10 amps. All will fit inside a standard 6 volt dummy case. Google Cyclon! I think they're brilliant.....get it? Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Hi Ian, Ron.

Just a little correction, with your permission..
To get 10 Amp it would take 2 units of 5 Amp in parallel.
If put in serial it would make 12V, 5 Amp.

As for a WV battery in the sidecar, it is something I also thought to do in the past,
But reading about it a bit and learning the subject, I understood that if you need to charge a 5, or even 12Amp battery,
Even if it is fairly flat, you would notice that the ammeter starts to going into the midrange of charging after few minutes of charging,
As the battery charges.
If using a car battery of some 40 Amp would take ages to be fully or even near fully charge with a 60 Watt dyno
(If you have the long dyno and it still performs as new.. ) so in generally- the consequence will be always charging at full capacity,
And a rapid wear of the dynamo and brushes, allot of power take-off all the time,
And sometimes even melting the soldering in armature.
As you really need the battery for light and horn, and using it only when idle, even 4.5 Amp should be good,
and the benefit of a low amp battery would be a fast charging of batt, and as it would be fully charged
most of the time, you would get good strong lights and loud horn when idle.
(Well, idle for few minutes..)

Cheers,
Noam.

email (option): noam10@gmail.com

It doesn't work that way, Noam. You only replace into the battery what you use - it's essentially an electricity container. If it's fully charged when you install it, then your dynamo does not continuously charge at the 40 amp rate, only at the rate your lights and horn use power, UNLESS something goes wrong with your charging system. If something goes wrong with your charging system because of, say, failure of the dynamo, the 40 amp battery (actually "amp-hour") will run your lights and horn nine times longer than a 4.5 amp battery. In a typical 35+6 watt setup (35 headlamp, 6 taillamp) a 4.5 amp battery will run your lights for about 40 minutes, not counting any horn use or stop light use. A 40 amp will run them for about 6 hours (enough to get home in most situations, considering that the lights will be of not much use after about half the period).

The only time a larger battery will have the type of adverse effect on the dynamo that you describe, is if the battery suffers the type of failure that would signal the regulator that it is discharged, such as mineral buildup which is the most frequent cause of failure and occurs when the battery is getting to the end of its life. You just need to make sure that the battery is properly maintained and not pushed past its pension age. On the other hand, this type of failure will also probably cause the dynamo to work full capacity even if you have a smaller (failed) battery.

email (option): jonny.rudge@verizon.net

Thanks for the concise explanation John..I never did have any problems with the VW battery I used in my outfit many moons back..and the set up was quite common when there were more sidecar outfits about.. Talking of VWs..if you want a horn that you can hear and is reliable (unlike all my restored Altettes)..go for the 6 volt VW unit, they are cheap, effective and reliable. I plan to fit one behind the pannier bags when I rebuild my M20, with the original just serving to make the bike look correct..
The only remaining challenge then is finding a speedo restorer that can make one last more than 10,000 miles.. ..Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Hi Johan,

I completely agree with you regarding the battery being a container, only refill what you took out and so on,
But the problem, beside of carrying a very heavy battery, is when like you mentioned- something goes wrong.

If the BSA was standing for a longer while in the shed, or if you forgot the lights on, or anything that would drain the battery,
It would take 4 hours of full rate charge of “Long” 60W dynamo, which gives 10A / 7.2V (If good)
and as you usually do not get to drive 4 hours in full charge, it would effectively take al least 10 hours.
(of course- when you travel with lights or even press the brake, you will discharge or charge much less)

As you mentioned- you would get about 40 minutes of light with 4.5 Amp, (Lets even say 20)
and you only need it when idle in traffic lights or so- so I see no problem..

A 4.5 Amp was just an example- I used to use one in the past and it worked fine for me,
But of course one can use the maximum battery volume he can get into the box (some 7 - 9 AH) usually.

Bottom line- it is just a matter of approach-
Ian said it was a common setup, and I trust anything he say, so-
Anyone can go ahead with is own decision.

The most important is – drive allot, and safe.

email (option): noam10@gmail.com

I guess the key point here is that if your VW battery discharges for any reason, such as leaving the lights on or a short circuit, it would be best to remove it from the bike and recharge it using a battery charger...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

i use a cheap 6 volt battery that fits into the old type battery case if it works next year it will the sixth year i have had it i dont go out much at night but the odd time and have had no trouble just disconnect it over the winter

email (option): roger.back@node6.com

will have a look later today at the types mentioned, yesterday my puw27e gave up the ghost after 6 years of service, so will look for something to fill it until the sidecar is fitted, with winter rain fog and darkness, lights become more important, so will have a look and see watt can be found

You are quite correct Noam. I should have said Parallel.
Connecting two 6volt batteries in series was the British Army way of doing it for trucks during WW2 to give 12 volts. As on my Tilly and Morris. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Can you still get the 8A Cyclon Jelly battery, the dealer at Shepton only had 5A or some bigger conventional battery shape 10A (I think they were 10A?)

Rob.

email (option): robmiller11@yahoo.co.uk

You can get them on t'internet for reasonable prices Rob...just Google cyclon batteries or look on e bay...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

I bought another 5 amp (£17) off the usual friendly guy at Kempton yesterday. I'm sure he had 8 amps as well.

Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Is this the 'Cyclon' battery that's being refered to? Appears that my current battery has just keeled over and died so if I have one of these I can get it from RS through work .

Stuart

email (option): stu.gibbins

Paul Goff does 13aH 6v Westco AGM batteries which do just fit in Ian's WD replica cases - I don't know if they would squeeze into a hollowed out original.

I like the idea that there is a fair bit of reserve lighting capacity if the charging system should give trouble. With one of these, I can get home from anywhere that I'm likely to be after dark.

Battery life?

I have a 6v sealed gel in the BSA right now, will look up the make / type but its been in there for 3 years, Ive not charged it once only when new, so wondering what the life of these things are, surely its got to be shot now. I even left the lights on last week for a full 2 weeks, so safe to say that I should prob replace it. BUT I could do with a 6v charger, any suggestions. Thanks

Kit

email (option): kit247@hotmail.com

A few of years back I got some 6 volt solar panels from ebay for just a few pounds each, stuck some wires on and some croc clips and made my own 6v solar chargers. They don't give out much juice as they don't get much sun, especially here in Lincolnshire, but I leave them clipped on over winter and it seems to be enough to keep the batteries topped up and I haven't had to charge them since I started using the solar chargers. I haven't looked recently, but I wouldn't be surprised if you couldn't buy ready made 6v solar chargers for motorcycles by now?

For my money there are only two options worth your money.
1) spiral cells , cyclon's or Optima ( if you put it in the boot )
Spiral cells will not fall apart due to vibrations and all of them are AGM & PVR so they will not self discharge if you do not ride the bike for a year or two.
2) plain PVR , AGM's like the Scorpion mentioned above.

Now for coping with a dead dynamo.
I fit a handle bar Hi/Lo switch which allows me to wire the bike;-
Full lights
Pilot + Tail
Tail only.
So as the battery slowly drains I can at least make myself seen from the rear.
At the speeds M20's go it is quite easy to ride without a headlamp ( with some there is not much difference )

email (option): wariron@tpg.com.au

I installed a front pilot LED bulb,
and same at tail.

For tail it is better to use a red led bulb,
as then much more light passes through the red lens.

(It is not the same as to have the white LED light pass through the red lens. you lose allot of light this way.)

Anyway, when using the LEDs at front and rear you can have it on for
hours and hours and the battery won’t drain.
the ammeter do not even move.

Noam.

email (option): noam10@gmail.com