I have a 1940 WM20 with the frame number of 23754 and know that it was delivered as a batch of 4000 bikes. However there are some other details on the card (if it was the correct info I was given by the previouse owner) that I was shown: 288 ROY RA TA 27 67 2. Can anyone throw some light on the meaning of these.

Many thanks Pete

email (option): peter@arthouse-design.co.uk

Hi Pete

This card could be a problem.



Firstly this machine has a rebuild serial "C 1401881" which means we have no way of checking the "Frame" number 23754, which could have been written down incorrectly on several occasions between the unit and the card or could in fact be the engine number? So we cannot be 100% sure this is your bike.

Secondly it looks like an old entry has been rubbed out and overwritten under the date, but it may read 27 6 62 or 72 which could be a date when the bike was sold off or passed to this unit??

"288 ROY? RA TA" presumably means 288th Battery or Regiment Royal Artillery Territorial Army.

Sorry not a lot of help really

Rob.

email (option): robmiller11@yahoo.co.uk

62 would be more likely than 72 I think, though it is possible. 1971 is currently the latest confirmed date I have for an M20 still in service with the British Army.
Rumour has it there is still one in the Citadel in Plymouth which is used as an instructional tool to demonstrate the basic workings of a motorcycle.
If THATS true I want it... ....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

i left 58 squadron royal corp of transport in cyprus november 1972 and they still had M20 on charge then i did take photos of them during my posting but the photos/ negs and loads of other gear went missing in one of my MFO boxes

Rob, thanks for the keycard scan, a bit of a puzzle then. The current engine number is 103199WM20 and the origional contract no. was C6654 and the tank number currently on the bike is C4199266.

All of which was passed to me by previous owner. I would like to badge the bike, would you say that the Royal Artillery could be right? and the tank number? Not sure what would be correct or as near as.

Thanks Pete

Hi Pete

If you are restoring the bike as a WW2 machine the keycards are pretty much irrelevant.

Most motorcycles were rebuilt in the late 40s early 50s so there is unlikely to be any connection between wartime and postwar history.

Royal Artillery is always a good guess as apparently one third of the British Army is Artillery in war time but the Royal Artillery may not use the same proportion of bikes as other units?

We do know that your bike (WM20 23754) left the factory with the serial C4199266 and then probably at some point was rebuilt and given the new serial C1401881 but we don't know when.

email (option): robmiller11@yahoo.co.uk

The 1944 establishment for both a Field regt. RA and an infantry battalion was 26 machines so no lack of motorcycles.

It occurs to me that the 'Rebuild' sequence commenced at 1400000 so this machine is probably quite an early one under that scheme. Any idea when it started ?

I think that it would be quite interesting to see some more restored bikes with 'rebuild' series numbers on them. It is certainly the most logical sequence for machines with differing engine numbers and parts from various years.

Trouble is if your work out the C Number from the frame number you know it is particular to your bike...how will duplication be avoided if people start to randomly pick 'rebuilt machine' numbers? ...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

With 100,000 numbers to choose from, I think it most unlikely that the three blokes who might decide to do it should end up with the same number...and so what if they did ?

There are images of C1441953 in The Netherlands and C1461573 in a photo dated 1943 which would suggest that this bike probably carried a rebuild number for much of its wartime service.

Of course, it's only for fun anyway !

Thanks for all the info guys - here's something that I've dug up from the BSA Dating Certificate; it says it was fitted with the current engine from a machine which was despatched to the War Office in 1943 as part of contract S2603.

email (option): peter@arthouse-design.co.uk