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Tank sealant

I applied the tank sealant to the B30 tank today...it was a bit of a drama removing the previous sealer which had failed after being exposed to the 'Ethanol' petrol. The remover didn't quite perform as easily as described.
I have used the American 'Tapox' sealant as a replacement...again rather more involved in it's application than the English equivalent and with a 5 day hardening period (at 20 degrees).
None of that matters if it works well though....I'll let you know the result soon.....Ian

email (option): julie@wright52.plus.com

Re: Tank sealant

Ian Wright
rather more involved in it's application than the English equivalent and with a 5 day hardening period (at 20 degrees).


Is that °celsius ? It's a good job that you're on the Devon Riviera then as it's a bit parky over here !

email (option): 79x100@gmail.com

Re: Tank sealant

It's not too warm here either Rik ..I'll have to leave the heater in the workshop on for 5 days! ....Ian

email (option): julie@wright52.plus.com

Re: Tank sealant

should have taken it to bed good excuse to stay in bed for five days and save on fuel bills

Re: Tank sealant

Hi Roger, That would have been an option in the days when I was single ...Ian

email (option): julie@wright52.plus.com

Re: Tank sealant

Hello, what was previous sealant if I may ask?

Re: Tank sealant

Hi Kalle...the previous sealant was Petseal. This was available in 'ordinary' and 'premium' grades. The 'ordinary' will definitely fail, results with the 'premium' seem to vary...sometimes it fails sometimes not. Mine failed.
Petseal have now developed a replacement to solve the problem. However, here in the UK the ethanol content of petrol is only 5%. In France it is already 10% and we are due to have that level at the end of this year. In America they have had 15% ethanol for a while, and that is why I opted for the American product (which is available in Europe)....Ian

email (option): julie@wright52.plus.com

Re: Tank sealant

Just to claify the Petseal issue. They used to have two types. 'ULTRA' which is and apoxy resin and 'PREMIUM' the formula type escapes me. It is the 'PREMIUM' which fails due to ethanol. The 'ULTRA has been upgraded with a new formula to be ethanol "resistant" Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: Tank sealant

Thanks Ron...I got them the wrong way round ...The key point though is that BOTH types of Petseal are likely to fail unless the Petseal used was of the upgraded type...Ian

email (option): julie@wright52.plus.com

Re: Tank sealant

At present both petseal, petseal ultra and the wassells sealer are all PR1005L sealer, designed for Avgas and jet fuel. This will fail with any more than 5-8% ethanol. Check the label for this product code before using. Wassells tell me they will have an ethanol proof product in the new year.
Cheers, Mick.

email (option): mick@motorbikemike.org.uk

Re: Tank sealant

'Tapox' update....When using this product the instructions tell you (after initial preperation of the tank)to 'rotate' the tank around to cover the entire internal surface and then drain off the surplus.The tank is then left for 30-60 minutes for initial hardening. After this it is recommended to introduce an 'airflow' through the tank for 3 hours at approx. .4 bar pressure. Then a second coat is applied and the procedure repeated. At least it would be...Even with the small (2 1/2 gallon) tank of the B30 and over £40 spent there was insufficient product to do this. Finally a 5 day hardening period is then required at a temp. of 20 degrees or more.....not exactly a simple procedure.
This procedure was followed, apart from the second coat, but in practice it is impossible to drain all the excess product from the tank due to its internal shape and the fact there is only one petrol tap hole.
After 5 days in the workshop with the heater on areas of the tank where the product has 'pooled' are still not fully hardened...this is a very slow curing product it seems....
So far then not a brilliant result. In my opinion the quantity of material supplied is insufficient if you can't complete a small tank to the specifications laid down, and it ain't cheap. If you don't have a compressor it won't be possible to ventilate the tank as described and presumably the long 'cure time' will be even longer. Hopefully when (if)it does finally harden off the resultant lining will do what it says it will do...I'll keep you posted...Ian

email (option): julie@wright52.plus.com

Re: Tank sealant

PS...As described by the makers there is sufficient product to line a 15 litre (3.3 gallon) tank with 2 coats...I think not ...Ian

email (option): julie@wright52.plus.com

Re: Tank sealant

I'm puzzled as to how the difference in Ethanol percentage makes the fuel more dangerous, surely if its the Ethanol doing the disolving even 1% will do the same damage but maybe take longer?

Also I have been told that "Yacht" grade Epoxy resin was the same as the old better grade of tank sealant, but there now appears to be a lot of talk in the boating world about the effects on Epoxy by these new fuels, looks like the RNLI could be quite busy from now on.

It appears the only real answer is to get your tank proffesionally welded, oh and don't let the fuel touch your carburetter

email (option): robmiller11@yahoo.co.uk

Re: Tank sealant

You wouldn't believe what ethanol has done to my old tractor. In the states we have 15 percent ethanol. The real issue is that ethanol is hygroscopic, meaning it draws water out of the air. Once this happens the water bonds with the ethanol and separates from the gas (petrol). The effect of this is a major drop in octane rating. The added ethanol is what builds the octane so when they separate this figure is no longer real. So then you get pinging and knocking and things tend to run pretty terrible. In the humid summers we have in the area I live, I have noticed my fuel going bad in less than a week. Very hard starting. Another effect is that when the ethanol separates from the fuel it becomes like a paint stripper. This will break up the old varnishes in your tank and carb.

Ethanol is also a oxygenate. This causes engines to run a touch leaner than normal. More oxygen is present in the fuel.

Ethanol is also very corrosive to aluminum and steel...

While it wont cause to many problems in new vehicles, our old bikes should be watched carefully. Dont use anything but fresh fuel. Dont leave gas in the tank for a few weeks and expect anything good to happen. While you may have a perfectly ethanol proof tank liner, it is drawing more and more water as it sits. Thus reducing octane and putting water in your combustion chambers. Water isn't compressible. It may give you a little boost in horsepower at the expense of valve damage and engine wear.

email (option): micran1234@yahoo.com

Re: Tank sealant

I wonder if the politicians and petrol companies live in the same world as the rest of us...Peoples bikes and cars (and other vehicles,boats etc.) are frequently out of use for periods of more than a few weeks.
Most vehicles don't have the facility/access to drain the petrol tank in anticipation of such events, never mind the cost of throwing away quantities of expensive fuel. Furthermore, even if the tank is drained the rest of the fuel system is still full of fuel.
The EEC are also currently discussing legislation to prevent people working on their own vehicles. If, therefore, you took the vehicle to an approved garage to be drained how would you get it home again? I can think of other problems as well....
Something tells me that as usual the geniuses that run the world haven't really thought this one through....Ian

email (option): julie@wright52.plus.com

Re: Tank sealant

I have just taken delivery(at Draganfly) of a new tank sealer. Its made in England and the manufacturers have assured me it has been tested with varying amounts of ethanol in the fuel, and with 100% ethanol, without any degredation. There is a bit of a long winded application process, but you don't need a compressor, as it must not be force cured, just left to harden.
It is supplied in 425ml tin, should be enough for up to 5 gallon tank. The price is £15.90+ tax/post.
Cheers, Mick.

email (option): mick@motorbikemike.org.uk

Re: Tank sealant

Mick are you just rubbing Ian's nose in the fact that he just spent £40 on a product that's not doing what it says on the tin?? Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: Tank sealant

As if I would!
It arrived just as I was reading the thread. Just a coincidence, honest
Cheers, Mick.

email (option): mick@motorbikemike.org.uk

Re: Tank sealant

I didn't want to hear that...I am already losing the will to live after frigging about as much as I have to date.

email (option): julie@wright52.plus.com

Re: Tank sealant

Michael Randall
You wouldn't believe what ethanol has done to my old tractor. In the states we have 15 percent ethanol. The real issue is that ethanol is hygroscopic, meaning it draws water out of the air. Once this happens the water bonds with the ethanol and separates from the gas (petrol). The effect of this is a major drop in octane rating. The added ethanol is what builds the octane so when they separate this figure is no longer real. So then you get pinging and knocking and things tend to run pretty terrible. In the humid summers we have in the area I live, I have noticed my fuel going bad in less than a week. Very hard starting. Another effect is that when the ethanol separates from the fuel it becomes like a paint stripper. This will break up the old varnishes in your tank and carb.


Michael, this is interesting me because mine was displaying these symptoms last weekend. I'd had a couple of weeks when I couldn't get out on the bike and it had been fine before. Last Saturday, it was a bit reluctant to start, spluttered a bit and then seemed to pink sometimes but inconsistently. Retarding the ignition caused a distinct loss of power so it wasn't over-advanced.

I've checked the timing tonight and it's spot on and the carb is clean but the fuel that tipped out onto my old newspaper seemed to have far too much surface tension for petrol (gas). It didn't have the white milky water bubbles that I know from washing bikes with concentric carbs but felt 'watery' between the fingers.

I don't know what I'm going to do about this. I'm getting more than 200 miles per tankful at the moment and much as I try to ride the bike, that's seven or eight hours riding per weekend and parental duties mean that I can't get away with that

email (option): 79x100@gmail.com

Re: Tank sealant

I used some tank sealer on my 1958 MGA several years ago. That crappy stuff flaked off in sheets glogging my fuel pump and lines. I would NOT ever recommend it.
Before you say it, I had the tank boiled out, properly etched, and it was a warm day. All instructions were followed.

email (option): britool51@hotmail.com

Re: Tank sealant

Rik, I bet this is your problem. This is exactly what my tractor and bike do when the fuel goes sour. Also, dont try to "boost" your fuel with octane increaser. This will do nothing after about 5 minutes. Once the ethanol separates from the fuel its useless. The moment you add octane increaser it bonds with the ethanol and water thats already separated.

Sometimes I find a tank of petrol will do just fine for a month. Then sometimes its gone to water within a few weeks. I think it comes down to how long its been around before you get it from the pump. There are also those storage tanks underground that weep water into the fuel. Its a crap shoot I think. Never know what you'll get.

email (option): micran1234@yahoo.com

Re: Tank sealant

Hi Mick...could you outline the application procedure for the new sealant?...if necessary I might try putting some more in on top of the current one.....Ian

email (option): julie@wright52.plus.com

Re: Tank sealant

No problem Ian, When I get to work on Monday I will email the instructions to you.
Cheers, mick.

email (option): mick@motorbikemike.org.uk

Re: Tank sealant

Thanks Mick...much appreciated....Ian

email (option): julie@wright52.plus.com

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