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Despatch Rider or Army Motorcyclist?

Hello!

Can i be helped to more clearly understand the difference between a Despatch Rider and Army Motorcyclist?

Cheers

Michael

email (option): micran1234@yahoo.com

Re: Despatch Rider or Army Motorcyclist?

I am no expert, but my opinion would be that a Dispatch Rider (or Despatch, either is correct) is a rider who's job description is to carry messages to and from various u7nits and HQ. An Army Motorcyclist could be part of a motorized troop, reconnaissance Section or even a Machine Gun Corp who is primarily a combat soldier on a motorcycle or sidecar.

Dispatch Rider.....

Post War - Spey Barracks

Army Motorcyclists.....

Boyes Anti-tank Rifle

Norton 16H and French Civilians

email (option): stinkypete80@hotmail.com

Re: Despatch Rider or Army Motorcyclist?

Dispatch rider was a trade within the RCS. They were trained and graduated as dispatch riders. They wore the winged wheel patch as their trade badge. Their purpose was to deliver messages. Motorcyclist were exactly that, men trained to ride motorcycles within their units, provosts etc...This does not mean they did not do dispatch riding for their units, but they weren't Signals.

Re: Despatch Rider or Army Motorcyclist?

And I presume army motorcyclists did not wear the winged wheel. I am in a reenacting group. We portray 15th Scottish Recce. We are mostly vehicle borne. I am trying to figure out if I should be a DR or Army motorcyclist. 15th Recce would never have a DR would they? Wouldnt a DR be part of Royal Signals? Or... would there be a DR wearing 15th division Lion and Recce shoulder title?

I am also somewhat interested in another point. Would a Army motorcyclist have access to the same kit as a DR?

Working on my impression here. Thanks for the help.

email (option): micran1234@yahoo.com

Re: Despatch Rider or Army Motorcyclist?

Well, this is where there's going to be all kinds of arguments. DR's from the RCCS worked with various units, relaying messages etc.. Could a DR from Signals be transfered to another unit and keep his trade badge, I'm not certain, but I imagine he would. Judging by the array of accoutrements worn by DR's and motorcyclists, I doubt if anybody could argue one thing was correct or incorrect once they were on campaign, garrison would be another story, but I imagine you have a post D-Day impression

Re: Despatch Rider or Army Motorcyclist?

Yes. post D-Day for 15th Recce. They didnt see much action beforehand. I think it makes more sense to go for the Army motorcyclist impression. Makes it easier on me. I can wear the same insignia I would wear as an assault trooper in 15 Recce. Minus the DR winged wheel.

email (option): micran1234@yahoo.com

Re: Despatch Rider or Army Motorcyclist?

As far as I am concerned the winged wheel trade badge (in the old set-up, before the introduction of A, B, C and D trades and therefor badges) is what it states: a trade badge.
Royal Corps of Signals (or Royal Signals, on the shoulder titles after October 1944) had motorcyclists to do DRLS and SDR duties involving handling and delivering of messages from one RSig office to another.
These RSig offices were part of the units of a larger composite entity, eg. Brigade or Division. The division with some 14-18000 troops in total had a independant RSig unit operating on Div. level.
Lower down there were Signals section operating attached to units.
RSig personel can be recognised by:
-Royal Corps of Signals shoulder titles,
-Royal Corps of Signals Arms of trade stripe (blue/white)
-the winged wheel trade badge with the DR lettering (only op to L/CPL or Cpl. Serjeants had their hands full doingh their tasks and did not get trade supplemment on their pay, so did not show badghes.
However on one best BD anything that would attrct attention was valid, as long as the RSM or CSM would let you get away with.
Only these were allowed to use the Royal Signals Blue and White armlets to signify RSig staff on active dutie. I have not found any proof in the gossip of wearing one or two armlets, left or right arm or even upside down to signify anything: no extra urgency etc.
One was supposed too have been issued with two and wear them! Wearing them would make one excempt for standing orders, normal road checks etc. as one was supposed to know where one was going, and the real motto was: THE MESSAGE HAS TO GET THROUGH!

Motorcyclist not belonging to the Royal Corps of Signals were not supposed to be called DR's but motorcyclists, and the winged wheel trade badge for those Army Motorcyclists seems to have come with the letters MC for these non Royal Signals.

If their duities would majorly see them out on a motorcycle, they would be issued with riding gear.
The long 'DR' coat was introduced in 1943 as a replacement for the two piece rubberised set used before (and for some till the end of the war)
Helmets: very few crash helmets were around at the beginning of the war. Only 1943 saw the steel motorcyclist helmet as a replacemnet for the pulp helmets.

email (option): rvanmeel@wanadoo.nl

Re: Despatch Rider or Army Motorcyclist?

There are several varieties of both types of badges, and I'm not sure if they occured at set dates.

Photobucket

If you look at the wartme "Establishment" of a unit it sometimes mentions Signallers.

For example the Establishment for Air Landing Light Battery, RA had a total of 22 Signallers on strengh which it lists as non tradesmen but they are not mentioned as attached from other units so were presumably Royal Artillery. The unit had on strengh 17 solo & 11 lightweight motorcycles but apparently no Despatch riders only Motor cycle orderlys.

The Establishment of the Airborne Divisional Signals lists a total of 37 Despatch Riders (tradesmen) and has attached a RAOC shoemaker Corporal & 2 Army Catering Corps Cooks.

email (option): robmiller11@yahoo.co.uk

Re: Despatch Rider or Army Motorcyclist?

army motorcyclist would be on convoy duties ie keeping the flow of traffic usualy 2 army motorcyclist maybe more to block junctions or direct the convoy down a certain route then race past the convoy to take up the next position i used to enjoy this so much speed well it was in those days felt like 100 mph

Re: Despatch Rider or Army Motorcyclist?

I have recently been told that the winged wheel badge was originally designed for a WW1 Royal Flying Corps despatch rider and these badges were used initially during WW11 as a stocks remained. A WW11 DR trade badge was a laurel around the DR.

Re: Despatch Rider or Army Motorcyclist?

Just to chuck in my bit, an old friend of mine was a motorcycle riding mechanic with 225 motor ambulance coy RASC, landing on Sword on D+3, If you ever call him a DR he will always stop you and say "I was an army motorcyclist, DRs were in the signals".
However, occasionally he was asked to take messages "as he was going that way"
Cheers, Mick.

email (option): mick@motorbikemike.org.uk

Re: Despatch Rider or Army Motorcyclist?

In Sir Ewoks first picture the insignia appear to be 7th Armoured Division, "Desert Rats". Does anyone have a location for the picture?

email (option): jrosson86@att.net

Re: Despatch Rider or Army Motorcyclist?

Can it be Germany post war with a 17-pndr in the background?

email (option): rvanmeel@wanadoo.nl

Re: Despatch Rider or Army Motorcyclist?

The Caption said 'Spey Barracks' wherever that was. I always thought of Scotland, either post war or just at the ending. Having said that the Brits had a habit of renaming German Barracks to suit themselves, perhaps somebody who served there will know.

email (option): stinkypete80@hotmail.com

Re: Despatch Rider or Army Motorcyclist?

Google; http://baor-locations.co.uk/Spey.aspx

email (option): viaconsu # planet dot nl

Re: Despatch Rider or Army Motorcyclist?

So Sir Ewok, what can you tell me about the second photo with the sidecar?

email (option): tinley@btinternet.com

Re: Despatch Rider or Army Motorcyclist?

John it looks like a Matchless V twin with a boys anti tank gun in an orange box Anyone with the right bits should build one. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: Despatch Rider or Army Motorcyclist?

Here some badges out of my collection, all comments are welcome!



The Matchy X with Boys antitank gun and Bren is an IWM picture, I have all the others too, very nice! someone here's gonna make one!!!

Cheers,

Lex

email (option): welbike@welbike.net

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