I tried to order some leaded matt paint today through "specialist paint supplies" They told me that I must have a certificate to order it and advised me to contact English Heritage to try to obtain the certificate.
The man I spoke to agreed with me that the government were very quick to ban certain constituent parts, allowing the manufacturers no time to perfect it's replacement and he agreed with me that the gloss finishes were much improved over the old types of paint, however he agreed that the perfection of matt paints was left virtually overlooked since the banning of lead in the paints back in 1978. I used to use old stock ex WD leaded paint and it was far superior to todays offerings as it seems that it actually bonded to the primer, if you take a sharp object and scrape todays matt paints the seem to either peel off, or chip off from the primer, the old leaded paints never seemed to do this, they seemed to scuff with a slightly grey (lead) sheen which if you wiped over them with an oily rag they seemed to heal themselves.
I have tried most of the available matt offerings and have found none of them to be tough enough, so, I've made some enquiries and it appears that you can still buy leaded paint.
Here is a copy of the code of practice that is on English Heritages website
http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/content/imported-docs/a-e/code-of-practice.pdf
So if you read it carefully, basically it says that if you can provide proof of your vehicles age, it is possible to get it. The form is on the second page of the file
The only downside is that it is expensive for real lead oxide primer (red lead) it is £122 and £130 (all plus VAT) for the top coat but these are for 5 litre cans, so if anyone wants somme it may pay you to split the costs with someone else but these quantities will easily do 2 bikes, possibly even 3 so it works out at a similar price to the two pack paints per litre.
The only downside is that you shouldn't let your kids lick your bike!!!
Nor me, I cut my teeth on the window ledge that was painted in leaded paint I'm ok (my alter ego says!)
It's all a load of European interference where it wasn't needed!
lead and children? Or lead in children, when they can't answer for themselves: see no harm in a ban, even when you seem to find problems and blame Europe.
With modern paints around you can treat your motorcycle to a good finish that should last till after you gone away on your last journey.
If originality is the proclaimed issue, we could not ride them at all, for the lack of pool petrol, real WD tyres and proper WW2 air to inflate the tubes.
On a different note: Rickets is known here as the Englisg disease, known to be around in your slums. Socialisme and better housing laws put an end to that.
Definition of Rickets:
Rickets is a disorder caused by a lack of vitamin D, calcium, or phosphate. It leads to softening and weakening of the bones.
Causes, incidence, and risk factors:
Vitamin D helps the body control calcium and phosphate levels. If the blood levels of these minerals become too low, the body may produce hormones that cause calcium and phosphate to be released from the bones. This leads to weak and soft bones.
Vitamin D is absorbed from food or produced by the skin when exposed to sunlight. Lack of vitamin D production by the skin may occur in people who:
•Live in climates with little exposure to sunlight
•Must stay indoors
•Work indoors during the daylight hours
Nothing to do with painting bikes, but.. It's why some of you Johnie foreigners call us LIMEY'S, after the citrus fruit given to our sailors to avoid such diseases. Ron
And the disgrace is that Rickets is making a comeback among the middle classes in the UK, along with other ailments associated with vitamin D deficiency! Get those kids outside in the sun and away from bl**dy computer games and the TV!
I thought there was a variety of Johnny Foreigner that refers to your lot as Pommy b.stards?
Probably slightly after in those regions a criminal record was no longer regarded as helpfull to obtain citizens rights?.
Cloggy rules okay?
But my empathy is with the initial poster: I try to buy red-oxide primer too, still called loodmenie, but then withourt the lead (lood in my native tongue) to act as my preferred basis for any motorcycle paint job (save the warm bits)
And the disgrace is that Rickets is making a comeback among the middle classes in the UK, along with other ailments associated with vitamin D deficiency! Get those kids outside in the sun and away from bl**dy computer games and the TV!
The reason that I've put this on is not specifically to do with getting an "original finsh" It's to do with getting a tough durable finish, which the paint manufacturers themselves say they cannot achieve with matt paints using the modern materials they are allowed to use. Has anyone used a bike with leaded paint on? It is far superior to the modern paints, it ages and wears better. I have painted lots of things with matt green using all different types of medium, two pack, etc. I have worked in a car spray shop and have used the modern materials and I like the gloss finishes, they are a vast improvement over some of the old gloss finishes, but unfortunately the matt finishes didn't enjoy the technology that was put into the gloss types and on the whole seem to be neglected and consequently the technology stopped back in 1978 as they were a lesser used finish. Cadmium plating is another fine example, this is why it is the preferred finish on steel for the aircraft industry because the heavy metal makes it a non preferred finish, but it is used because it is tougher than the "green" alternative.
Believe me I'd use a modern paint if it did what it said on the can as it would be cheaper!!!
If you look at the range of finishes used on modern restored WD bikes a lot of them appear to be a satin finish, this is because they are using a gloss paint and putting a matting agent in it ,the amount of matting agent required to make a true matt makes the paint unsprayable, this is a fine example of the paint manufacturers not putting the same expense in the matt paints as the gloss ones.
In reply to Robs wish to buy it, why don't you go halves with someone in the UK who is restoring one and get them to get the form filled out? I presume you'd have to collect it from the UK or get someone to fetch it over.
Yes, the lead based stuff is MUCH better for finish, protection and durability. Here in Canada like the States, lead based paint is a big "NO NO".
I remember looking into house paints years ago and was amazed that in the UK,with permission, you could get lead based paints to restore your heritage house (I guess from "English Heritage"). There is nothing like that here. I have even gone as far as getting hold of lead powder to make my own paint!
Zinc Chromate,..nope. Cadmium,...forget it. What's really scary is by 2014 they are hoping to have ONLY water based paints,(I think they are going to have a hard time making that date).
When I painted my M20 I couldn't find a decent FLAT paint and used the best, (read expensive!) automotive paint I could get at the time, (Sikkens) thinking that they would have the answer.
I contacted their head office asked their technical reps. about flat paint and they just could NOT get around the fact that someone actually wanted a flat colour. While everyone wants the most brilliant, shiny, durable finish possible for their car,....here comes some nutbar who wants a paint that is as flat as the Earth
I bought their paint and a "flattening agent", which if I am not totally wrong is akin to liquid Talcum powder! I put it together at the recommended rate and still ended up with "a slightly flatter shade of semi-gloss".
In the end I got so frustrated I almost mixed the agent 50/50 with the paint.
The results were predictable. While the primer was durable enough,(beige not primer red!), after a few hundred miles my bike began to transform itself from a sort of semi-gloss khaki(ish) colour ,number?? to a fairly respectable "Light Stone, No. 61".
Here in Canada, where deserts are in short supply, it means I am desperately searching for suitable terrain before i have completed the transformation process .
I've just ordered 10 litres of green from Frank Burberry matched to the colour of an original painted headlamp glass, he has promised "matt" so it will be interesting to see what it looks like.
His paint (thinned with white spirits)takes a while to dry but seems pretty durable.
The problem I have found with most paint suppliers is the difference in colour between batches of paint, if you don't buy enough and go back for another tin its never quite the same.
i got some brushing celluose matt seem to not damage much and has still got a matt finnish but i am going for the used in service look though i think it getting harder to buy it
You could always use whatever paint you could get in the right colour and then spray over it with a matt finish two pack lacquer...that is tough...and petrol resistant...Ian
Apparently Ian the matting agent used in 2 pack laquer clogs the gun if it is a true matt finish, so they only seem to settle for a satin finish, not a true matt.
I succeeded in getting a nice, matt finish with my spray gun. The paint was Mud Brown, with a liberal quantity of green pigment added (I didn't like that chocolate colour )
Diluted with petrol (gas in the former colonies) and sprayed at such distance that the smaller droplets dried before reaching the surface to be painted. That resulted in a nice, real matt finish; you could have seen it in Normandy this year.
Drawback: no splashing with petrol allowed.